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freedom, humor, knowing, love, psychology, spiritual power, the new self, the old self
Well… Which Self to Choose? 😉
(Cartoon taken from http://mylifeintupperware.blogspot.de/2012/04/feeding-right-dog.html)
“If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!” (Mt 7:11 ESV)
Boy, who would have thought that our Old Adam and Eve are evil persons who can do good things, to be sure, yet cannot truly love due to their immanent wretchedness? But wait…can’t they love somehow, though? We know from our own experience that every human being can fall in love which is a wonderful thing, however, it’s still selfish love. Since as soon as the beloved person rejects the one who still looks through rose-colored glasses, love as it was before is over. And that we love our children is normal, too, isn’t it? Even if they reject us one day.
Rejection causes damage, for sure. Whether we know it or not, our inner being is extremely vulnerable and does NOT want to suffer at all. If it has been hurt, it must protect itself, either by beating back or by building prison walls around the hurting heart.
Let’s say, someone has been rejected very often in their life and does not want to be hurt again. What will they be inclined to do in order to not be hurt again?
Hmm…
One possibility would be to avoid human contact and to live a lonely life where nobody can hurt you, but where, alas, is no one to comfort you when you’re sad. No encouraging word to lift you up, no tender correction when your thoughts make you feel depressed or even desperate. Indeed, if we are completely alone with our thoughts and have no one to share them with, the possibility to choose the wrong ways in life will be way higher unless…..yes, unless we have the best Counselor possible, the Holy Spirit who leads us into all the truth.
If we indeed experienced rejection very often in our past life, God will heal our wounds and lead us to brothers and sisters who will love us “through it all”. They will love us despite our mistakes, failures, overreactions or any other imperfections. We may learn from one another in such fellowships and we may carry the other when he or she is weaker just as the others will help us get up again if we stumbled and fell down.
We are all human and it is allowed to make mistakes, once, twice, three times, every day, thousands of times because the Lord is our righteousness. We might be self-righteous or malevolent, suspicious or resentful, cold-hearted or loveless. Actually, that is not our problem since Jesus came to set us free from that OLD SELF. Although the old man/woman basically died with Him on the cross 2,000 years ago, the reality of dying to our negative and sinful flesh must be experienced in our own life – today, now, every day a bit more. To be honest, it is not enough to say, “I have been raised with Christ and now I am a new creation,” if there is no evidence of it in our everyday life.
Finally, compared with our old self, how does our new self love?
“Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.” (1 Jn 4:7-8 ESV)
Not loving means not knowing GOD. But there is no need to go insane when we realize that there are persons we do not really love (unconditionally). This is simply our old self that cannot love selflessly because it has been hurt and its wounds have not been healed yet. In fact, in such cases there is no need to repent or to confess one’s sins, either. If we do not love like Christ does (yet), we ought to simply wait on Him who makes the impossible things possible as He said here,
“But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have?” (Mt 5:44-46 ESV)
He will even make us love those who do NOT love us in return. Do you believe this?
Entering the Promised Land 
Yes, Susanne, I believe it and I know you do too, because he is making all things new and giving us a new heart that loves as HE loves.
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Amen, we both believe it, Michael.
It is interesting for me to see that the new heart is something that has been “implanted” by God hidden before our own eyes which only tend to see the wretchedness of the old man. We even need His help to direct our eyes away from the old self to see ourselves already perfectly mirrored in His face right now. That perfect new heart has been there inside us all along without us knowing it. Jesus was the first, our forerunner, so to speak, who fulfilled what has been accomplished in us, too. He said,
“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit. Whoever loves his life loses it, and whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. If anyone serves me, he must follow me; and where I am, there will my servant be also. If anyone serves me, the Father will honor him.”
Indeed, I cannot say that I ever loved my life nor my old self since I have come to know Jesus better and better. But one day when all those dying pains have come to an end, the miracle of eternal and new life begins to shine even through us, more and more. This is my great hope, the hope of resurrection life already here on earth.
Thank you so much for your continued encouragement, dear brother! 🙂
Love,
Susanne
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Susanne, I see where you re-posted this blog article on FB, so I decided to read it again, knowing that you only write or bring up former writings when Father tells you too. Boy does this seem to hit close to home right now. You wrote,
“If we indeed experienced rejection very often in our past life, God will heal our wounds and lead us to brothers and sisters who will love us ‘through it all’. They will love us despite our mistakes, failures, overreactions or any other imperfections. We may learn from one another in such fellowships and we may carry the other when he or she is weaker just as the others will help us get up again if we stumbled and fell down.”
As you know, I have had a life filled with rejection. It started out when I was one year old when my Father rejected me. I spent many years trying to figure out what I had done wrong (or was doing wrong) so I could fix it and be acceptable again, all to no avail. When he died at 72 he was still cold and distant to me and my younger sister.
Only in my recent years has God lead me to brothers and sisters who love me through it all… “mistakes, failures, overreactions or any other imperfections.” Yes, I know that list quite well, yet Father has sent people like you who look beyond all that when others (even “Christians”) do not. I am very blessed to know you. Thank you Father for all you have been and are doing in my life and thank you dear sister for being my friend. ❤
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Yes, Michael, that is true, I only do re-postings on Facebook when God shows me to do it and I can tell you that I had no idea that this one would hit close to home in your case. God’s thoughts indeed are way higher than ours and His thinking and doing remains a mystery for us.
I am so sorry about the early rejection in your life and about those many, many rejections later. 😦 Thank God, who is able to do the impossible, He heals our old and deep wounds over time.
I am happy to be your sister and friend too, Michael. Our spiritual fellowship has been a wonderful blessing from God, just as you are a very special and precious blessing from Him. ❤
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Susanne, thank you for listening and obeying the Spirit the way you do. As a result you are a blessing to many and a special blessing to me as well. Just as that woman broke the alabaster box to bless Jesus, so your breaking in the hands of the Lord not only has blessed Him, but it has blessed His whole household, too. I am so glad that we are both part of that household together. ⭐ 🐻 ⭐
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You’re very welcome, my dear brother.
I am glad if someone has been blessed by what I did or do. But I know it has nothing to do with me since I am an empty vessel with a blank mind unless the Lord fills me up. So, it is all His doing, basically.
Yes, I am very glad that God put you and I together in His Kingdom’s household, Michael. ⭐ 🐱 ⭐
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Jesus had been ditched by His beloved disciples, who fell asleep when He was emotionally most in need, and specifically asked for their support at the garden of Gethsemane. But because Jesus’ need for love was completely fulfilled by our Heavenly Father, He was free to love, despite of the disciples’ incapacity to love. Jesus had no resentment towards His disciples! Thanks for the article! We can all relate!
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Very well said, Joanna! Good example at that. Thank you so much for commenting again! Am encouraged!! 🙂
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Susanne, thank you for this post. The new man is in my heart, I think. However, it has not been tested. My pray is to pass when tested.
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You are so welcome, Pat. ❤
I think you noticed that it was your previous comment on my latest blog that inspired me to write this article. And I tell you, it was not the first time that your comments were greatly inspiring for me. Thanks a lot for your precious contribution, dear sister! 🙂
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Herbert, again. #1 comment. I recently studied 1st Cor. 13 in Amplified Bible.The
wording is so much more understandable than KJV. I will give you some wording
v 4; NOT ENVIOUS OR JEALOUS. : NOT BOASTFUL.v 5: NOT INFLATED WITH
PRIDE.NOT RUDE OR UNMANNERLY. DOES NOT INSIST ON IT’S OWN WAY.
NOT RESENTFUL TAKES NO ACCOUNT WITH EVIL DONE TO IT. v 6; DOES
NOT REJOICE IN INJUSTICE. v 7: BEARS UP WITH ANYTHING THAT HAPPENS.
READY TO BELIEVE THE BEST OF EVERY PERSON.
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Oh, Herbert, that is really great!! Thanks so much for sharing this Bible translation of 1 Corinthians 13 – excellent, indeed!!
I particularly love THIS:
“READY TO BELIEVE THE BEST OF EVERY PERSON.”
YESSSSS!!! That is my very opinion and I always try to do it (with God’s help, of course).
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This has great significance for the victims of abuse. I have more than once had a victim tell me her plan to shut the world out, in an effort to avoid further pain. That fear can run very deep. But the price of isolation is too high. Only grace can enable victims to pray for their tormenters.
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Indeed, Anna, you hit the nail on the head, since I was actually thinking of abused women when I wrote about fleeing from the world and particularly from human beings. Some women – understandably enough – prefer living with animals rather than people after such deeply painful incidents.
Yes, grace alone can help them in the end. However, it’s a long way to get there and much patience is necessary for those women because deep wounds heal slowly…
Thanks so much for your insightful testimony, Anna. I was glad to see you commenting on here again. 🙂
Love,
Susanne
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Part of my last message is scripture of 1st John: ch 3 vs 1, 16-17. ch 4vs 7-11, 16-19, ch 5v 1-2 which is like John 13 vs 34-35. with Christian devotion. Herbert
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Again, I cannot comment with my e-mail page. Herbert
Can you tell me when on an emotional high the HOLY SPIRIT ANOINTING
or a MANIC EPISODE?
As a Christian teen, I went to a Christian camp where was repeated ANOINTED
TEACHING and fellowship with dedicated Christian teen like me. So I kept
an emotional high. When I got home, I had DEPRESSION. WAS IT MY FRST
EPISODE OF BIPOLAR?
In 1993, I attended anointed worship services daily for 3 days. I kept an emotional
increased with each service. I CALLED IT HOLY SPIRIT ANOINTING. WHY NOT
SINCE THIS HIGH INCREASED WITH SINGING BIBLICAL BASED SONGS!?
But. I did not sleep well so I experienced fatigue. At the same time there was
times of increased energy: (MANIA). WHEN I GOT HOME THIS LASTED 4
MORE DAYS.THIS ENDED WITH SUCH MENTAL & PHYSICAL EXHAUSTION
AND LACK OF CONCENTRATION KEEPING ME FROM PRACTICING MEDICINE.
I WENT TO THE HOSPITAL WITH BIPOLAR DISEASE.
Of course, I experienced FATIGUE WITH LOSS OF SLEEP as part of my work.
So, I cannot use fatigue and loss of sleep THAT IS MANIA..
The only thing common with MANIA was TIMES THAT COLORS FROM TRAFFIC
LIGHTS AND OTHER COLORS WAS GREATLY INTENSIFIED.
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Dear Herbert,
Although I suggested to you yesterday that I would answer to this particular comment via email only, I was praying over it once again and wondered whether a response to your question might also be interesting for those of my readers of who I know that they suffer from bipolar disease as well. So, I will try to share my thoughts on that difficult subject on here.
I assume what you described as your teen experience as an emotional high followed by depression was certainly your first bipolar episode. However, that does not mean that you had no spiritual experience with God. God is Spirit and He indeed often meets people who are mentally sick in the midst of their emotional confusion. To really try to discern what of the whole episode was spiritual and what only emotional will eventually leave you more and more confused as I know from my own experience. Asking (Christian and other) psychiatrists about it didn’t help me either because the non-Christian therapists, though mostly very understanding, knew bipolar disease only from their books and patients (from “the outside”, that is), however, not from their own experience which would have helped so much. The Christian psychotherapists might have a similar problem when they try to arrange the disease to fit with what has been written in the Bible. So, you won’t probably find any expert on mental sickness who did not yet suffer from it himself.
What helped me, finally, to deal with the problem was the starting point of healing in 2005. I realized that I had to accept the disease as GIVEN BY GOD. Both the emotional highs and particularly the depressive lows had to be embraced as, “My Lord, Thy will be done.” Thus slowly the first healing set in. Afterwards I lost more and more interest in experiencing emotional highs and the emotional lows flattened out over the years until they were gone (healed). It was a process and it still is because God heals the roots of our diseases and it is still painful at times when He digs out another wound of the past and begins to heal it. Yet through acceptance of pain the healing process is shorter than it would be by continued rejection of negative feelings.
I hope my thoughts could help you a bit, Herbert. May God bless you and heal you completely!
Love,
Susanne
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yes many times people in my life have turned against me and still I love them–there is only one answer to this mystery–Gods being inside of me.
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Amen, Kenneth. No other answer possible, “He inside us is LOVE!”
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I fully agree that it is God at work perfecting us. However, we do make choices in the paths we take. He has given us free will, and does not “force” our obedience. His grace simply makes it easier for us to overcome our sin nature, and make the better choice. That, at least, is how I understand it.
The cartoon you’ve included, I’m sure you know, alludes to what is often described as an Indian allegory on the subject of good and evil. A wise old chief explains to a young boy that there are two wolves in each of us. One is good, the other evil. The two wolves fight relentlessly. After some thought the boy asks, “Which one wins. in the end?” The chief replies, “The one you feed most.”
Whether it’s actually of Indian origin or not, I don’t know. But I do think there’s an essential truth captured about our divided nature. And an important lesson. We must not be so discouraged by our failures that we give up the fight. Though it seems paradoxical to the idea of free will, we must trust that God will carry us forward to walk in the good works He has ordained for us.
I like the quote by Lee Strobel, “Jesus Christ did not come into this world to make bad people good; He came into this world to make dead people live.”
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I do like that quote by Lee Strobel as well, Anna. It reminds of Ezechiels’s vision of “The Valley of Dry Bones”.
“And he said to me, “Son of man, can these bones live?” And I answered, “O Lord God, you know.” Then he said to me, “Prophesy over these bones, and say to them, O dry bones, hear the word of the Lord. Thus says the Lord God to these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live. And I will lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live, and you shall know that I am the Lord.” (Ez 37:3-6 ESV)
Yes, it is a fight at times which “dog to feed” and we usually face many of these choices every day. His grace indeed helps us to make better choices and to more and more gladly obey out of love for Him and others.
I was just thinking of my weakest times in life when I was not able to make ANY choices, often captured in the midst of mental sickness, and from those times I know that I simply needed His grace, mercy, and power to pull me through back then. It was only afterwards when my mind was clear again that I realized how much HE had helped me – most often through others – to make the best choice possible. How that happened, I don’t know… 😉
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Dear Jacqui,
What you wrote about your experience with your mother on her deathbed touched me that deeply. How terribly difficult must that have been for you, such a situation, even after that painful childhood you had to go through. I do not know what to say on this…..
You know I can relate to being incredibly tired as I told you yesterday in a short email and that I always (ought to) take my time until I have recovered. I already told you that I loved your comment above that much because it was so inspiring, In fact, yesterday I was not sure about on which of the issues you mentioned I should reply to you. On the Judas Iscariot subject, on humility that increases the closer we get to God, or on cats and dogs. 🙂 Meanwhile I think I am going to share my Judas experience with you and others who might read it.
As Jesus came more and more fully into my life, He not only freed me from reading books but also from any interest in this world. So, more than 6 years ago, I also stopped watching TV, feeling more and more bored with what I loved to watch before (World News and weather forecast ;-), documentary reports and even Christian stuff).
One evening I had just been watching a documentary report as I felt nudged to pray. I lay down on the couch in the living room, however, the TV was still on and I heard some blah blah in the background. As I closed my eyes, I was immediately reminded of Judas Iscariot and felt so deeply touched by his fate that I began to sigh and pray wholeheartedly, asking Jesus WHY that had happened to him. What was the difference between Peter and Judas? Weren’t all of His disciples sinners before they got converted? Knowing my own Judas heart, who but God could have saved me out of my many sins? I was weeping and crying to God for Judas’ salvation until I suddenly felt that my prayer had been heard.
Deep peace enwrapped my soul and I wondered how God gave me faith without doubts about a situation from which I knew many, even theologians, saw it differently. But since that time I had not the slightest doubt that Judas had really been saved. I was so happy about it that I opened my eyes again and tried to get up. However, out of the blue I suddenly heart from TV,
“What is impossible with man is possible with God.”
Period.
Oops!! What had happened? A confirmation from God via TV? Huh?? 😉
Actually, while getting up, I had forgotten where I had put down the remote control and I had just accidentally touched a button with my right foot (which had been wrapped in a thick wool sock (!)). The channel on TV just displayed a short episode from a famous Jesus film and the words I heard were taken from the Gospel of Luke. How God made it indeed possible to touch with my clumsy “wool foot” the proper button with such precision – completely unawares at that – is a deep mystery for me until today… 🙂
Much love,
Susanne xx
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Susanne and Jacqui,
I also had a similar deathbed experience. My aunt was dying of cancer and spent her final days in her home. I was not called until she had slipped into a coma and I found out that my father had been there for a week from 900 miles away without calling me. Well, my wife and I went over to see my dad and aunts and uncles at her house and she was lying on the living room couch and looked like a shriveled up 90 year old Indian woman. Cancer had decimated her body. The rest of them were crowded around the corner in the dining room and kitchen. Looking death in the face is too much for most people.
Anyway, after saying hello to them all I felt that the Lord wanted me to kneel beside my dying aunt and speak words of faith to her in her comatose state. I told her that Jesus saw the suffering she went through all her life and that He loved her and wanted to take her home with Him and kissed her on the forehead. At that moment a beam of heavenly light came down from over my left shoulder and shown upon her face in a flash. I watched her body jump when it did and then I heard crying behind me. It was my father and his other sister clinging to each other and weeping… they saw it too. Neither of them ever spoke to me about what they saw and felt in that moment, but that was only the second time I ever saw my father cry (the first was when my little brother died).
I do not claim to be so bold or stupid as to use the Bible to dictate to others as to who God saves and who He does not. His arm is not short. In fact we are told plainly to never judge another before they stand in that day before God, not us (see 1 Cor. 4:3-5). Paul wrote a remarkable thing about salvation saying,
“But God shows his love for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we are now justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. Not only so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received our reconciliation.” (Romans 5:8-11 RSVA)
I don’t see a “sinner’s prayer” as a condition for salvation in any of this passage. We have been reconciled to God by the death of Christ on the cross while we were yet God’s enemies, not after we sign a truce! And we are SAVED BY HIS LIFE. John wrote, “In Him was LIFE and the LIFE was the light of men.” I believe His LIFE came into my dying aunt and saved her by HIS sovereign act of love for her as she lie there dying and I will see her on the other side in her perfected body.
Love to both you dear sisters!
Michael
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Dear Michael,
Thank you so much for sharing that awesome testimony about your poor aunt’s salvation on the deathbed and thank you also for the following words that directly came from God as my heart strongly confirmed.
“I do not claim to be so bold or stupid as to use the Bible to dictate to others as to who God saves and who He does not. His arm is not short. In fact we are told plainly to never judge another before they stand in that day before God, not us.”
Also, YES and AMEN to the following creed.
“I believe His LIFE came into my dying aunt and saved her by HIS sovereign act of love for her as she lie there dying and I will see her on the other side in her perfected body.”
Meanwhile I experienced that in similar cases, often while I was not able to be at the deathbeds of (not only) relatives and I always got out of the blue the confirmation of their salvation engraved into my heart. No doubt possible.
Finally, we walk by faith, not by sight…..
Love ❤
Susanne
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That was beautiful, Susanne! The Lord has been exposing my failure in this area, but He is faithful to complete the work that He has begun in my life, and in others. The Lord’s love shines so strongly through you in every blog post ♥.
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Oh, Brenda! I am the worst person I know of and you dare to say such awesome things about me!! 🙂 You leave me completely speechless, my dear sister…
Much love ❤ ❤ ❤
Susanne
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Thanks, for your WORDS OF PRACTICAL WISDOM! The best help is DO NOT
CONSIDER HIGHS AND LOWS! That is GREAT ADVICE, I HAVE N THE PAST
RECEIVED TEACHING THAT ONE’S PROCESS OF SANCTIFICATION, (FOR
EVERY BODY) : HIGHS AND LOWS SHOULD GET LESS & LESS.
The truth of this is , I believe.I am experiencing this.
I am told that for those with bipolar disease many have MANIA only on occasion.
mine was 1983. 1993. & 2009. NOW, I AM ON MEDICATION AS IS RECOMENDED. SO, ONE CANNOT TELL WHEN IT IS NEEDED. as ever Herbert
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I am so glad that you found my comment helpful, Herbert. Thank you for your encouragement! 🙂
Actually, bipolar disease is not the same for everyone. Some people are constantly bipolar, some on several occasions over time, and others only once in their lifetime. You never know…
However, what I saw was that all who suffered from that disease made spiritual experiences that reached beyond anything they knew (felt, sensed, smelled, saw, etc.) before. And these experiences were rather similar for all of them, be that Christians or non-Christians. But tell a psychiatrist about it, they will either shake their head in surprise or tell you that your “spiritual” experiences were only symptoms of the disease. Without God I would have never realized that there are indeed blurred boundaries between the realm of the spirit and our “normal” realm of body and soul feelings.
So true, medication can help us to balance our emotional situation. But I admit that I was always someone who loved herbal drugs and did not like “heavy” chemistry that much. The only exception for me were tranquilizers which made it, finally(!), possible to get back to sleep again after many, many nights without sleep – that was as exhausting as torture, as you certainly know, too. When you want to sleep, but can’t – at all…. PHEEEEEEW!!!! 😛
Blessings,
Susanne
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I can so relate to Herbert’s comments. I had a (mild?) form of bipolar disease that reared its ugly head at several moments in my life, typically at times of great stress. I once had a very serious episode of mania with delirious thoughts that ended really badly, and after that I had panic attacks for years because as soon as I saw the first signs of mania I felt it was starting again. Mania tended to come when I would get closer to God and He talked to me. Or at least, at the time I felt it was Him. Then doubts (and inevitably, some form of depression) set in and it’s very hard to tell if it was God trying to stretch my faith forward or the devil poisoning me with grandiose thoughts of a great mission and vision…
I haven’t had serious episodes of mania since the beginning of 2013 (and have been medication free since the year 2000, except for an occasional anxiety pill to help me sleep). I did feel quite depressed at the last months of that year because I experienced the ultimate disappointment with Churchianity. Now I’m rather apathetic about spiritual things, and I haven’t had a real experience with God for months. The only positive thing I can say about my spiritual progress is that successive failures at anything resembling sanctification or a personal ministry have made me much less judgmental and more humble and loving. Since I know I’m no example, I tend to tolerate people’s faults more readily. And while I disagree with the way man has organised church and don’t really want to join yet another “fellowship” to be let down once again, I do not judge, let alone feel resented against, pastors or brothers who are still in the system. I have a former brother in the faith who left the system and is so full of hatred that I can’t talk to him anymore. Sad because he and his wife used to be precious people, but trying to reach out and let him see judgmentalism is poisoning them has been an utter failure.
I so agree with your tip to accept these mental issues as part of what God has allowed that we bear. This did help me. While I have to be on the lookout for flareups, I’ve almost been fully healed and when something resembling my former sick self comes again, I thank God because it could have been much much worse.
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Dear Carina,
Thank you so much for your rich, deep, and wise response. Your testimony, I am sure, can help many who read it. Meanwhile I wonder why not only a few people who are/were bipolar meet on the internet. Maybe because there they find others who understand…..?
You said so many interesting and important things. For example,
“Mania tended to come when I would get closer to God and He talked to me. Or at least, at the time I felt it was Him. Then doubts (and inevitably, some form of depression) set in and it’s very hard to tell if it was God trying to stretch my faith forward or the devil poisoning me with grandiose thoughts of a great mission and vision…”
Yes, Carina! I can really relate to that. In fact, whenever I had a deeper encounter with God in the past, shortly afterwards mania and confusion set in, sleeplessness, aggressiveness (due to a lack of sleep) combined with thrilling but also tormenting thoughts of megalomania. Pheeeew!! 😛
I saw the same pattern in the Bible as God had revealed to Peter that Jesus was the Messiah – certainly Peter was happy to have known more than the other disciples – and a few verses later we read that Jesus addressed Peter that way,
“Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.” (Mt 16:23 ESV)
Ouch – as high as Peter might have felt before, now he was humbled – deeply. In fact, Satan is God’s instrument to humble us continually, to wear the old self out until we are fed up with being how and who we are in our carnal nature and cry out to Him for His Spirit to make us completely new. And that is a process, indeed.
Reading your reply carefully, I see that God has done an immense work in your heart by now. You wrote,
“The only positive thing I can say about my spiritual progress is that successive failures at anything resembling sanctification or a personal ministry have made me much less judgmental and more humble and loving. Since I know I’m no example, I tend to tolerate people’s faults more readily. And while I disagree with the way man has organised church and don’t really want to join yet another “fellowship” to be let down once again, I do not judge, let alone feel resented against, pastors or brothers who are still in the system.”
THAT is spiritual maturity when we are able to let others go that way God chose for them, be that inside or outside the church. As for the brother you mentioned who had left the system full of hatred, well, I also can relate to his behavior. It was indeed the same for me when I left in 2000. And it was good for me that there were some people who had been as angry as I was and we could meet sitting at the table, railing together against the false system and its false ministers. 🙂
Well, I needed a very long time of deep healing by God until I could forgive and let go and even wanted all by whom I had felt offended to be saved and reconciled with God. Carina, I think whether we feel hatred or not might also have to do with the “depth of involvement” we experienced in a church system. Maybe, we had immense expectations as for our own “mission” in “the system”. Such a reaction, like hatred, springs from our old and disappointed self that wants to be right and show others how much better we could have done it. In hindsight, I see that God let me stew in my own juice until I, finally, began to laugh about my own stupidity. 😉
Thanks again for your precious comment, Carina. I am glad that God helped you through so many difficult times and that you know how to deal with flare-ups, just in case the disease tries to rear its ugly head again. I would be glad to read more comments from you in the future if you like. Your reply was a really helpful contribution, both a confirmation and a wonderful testimony.
Love ❤ ❤ ❤
Susanne
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Susanne and Carina,
So many wonderful truths you two have shared here in this exchange! Carina wrote:
“Mania tended to come when I would get closer to God and He talked to me. Or at least, at the time I felt it was Him. Then doubts (and inevitably, some form of depression) set in and it’s very hard to tell if it was God trying to stretch my faith forward or the devil poisoning me with grandiose thoughts of a great mission and vision…”
This sounds all too familiar! I had many wonderful experiences with the Spirit moving through me and it was a real high to my emotions and sense of self-worth and identity. I finally “had a ministry!” Well, I also remember the anger and depression I felt if anyone questioned what I did or got “from the Lord.” I never thought of myself as being bi-polar. In fact back then the term was not even heard of. Later after going through 14 years of wilderness and of depression when God pulled the plug on me in an effort to separate my soulishness from the Spirit in me, God started moving in me again and I soon became a church conference junky. The spiritual gifts were still gone so I would go to a conference and get high on the large crowd dynamic especially during worship and then have to go back home to the hum drum of my ho-hum church and regular life. Soon I was filling out the form to go to another conference and the cycle started all over again. Carina wrote:
“The only positive thing I can say about my spiritual progress is that successive failures at anything resembling sanctification or a personal ministry have made me much less judgmental and more humble and loving. Since I know I’m no example, I tend to tolerate people’s faults more readily. And while I disagree with the way man has organised church and don’t really want to join yet another “fellowship” to be let down once again, I do not judge, let alone feel resented against, pastors or brothers who are still in the system.”
Again, it is good to read your description so closely matching the process that He took me through. It was many rejections and failures that came to me as God was trying to free me of that man-made system called Sunday church. Over all these years he has been humbling me to show me that unless God builds the house, they who build it labor in vain. And as Jesus said, “Every plant my father has not planted will be rooted up.” And again He said, “Apart from my you can do NOTHING!” He let me fail flat on my face many times just to learn this one lesson. And also taught me that Jesus is my righteousness and power over sin. I fell enough times to learn this lesson as well and, like you both, it has given me compassion that I would not have had for those caught in sin. So, now I am content if he gives me something to write and share and I am equally content if He gives me nothing. BTW, I seem to be in a season of the latter as far as having anything to post on my own blog. 🙂
God bless you two sisters. I know from reading Susanne’s postings on here that we are all three tracking right along together. You two have blessed me in what you have shared.
God bless you both in His love,
Michael
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Thank you for another of your great and edifying comments, Michael. 🙂
Actually, it seems to me that you currently write replies on here and elsewhere in order to encourage others instead of publishing a new post; to do both at the same time can be exhausting at times as I know from my own experience. Since I had commented extensively on the net for 2 1/2 years before I launched my two blogs, I do know that many bloggers and other commenters truly need our encouragement. So, I think you just do what God wants you to do at the moment, my dear brother. And you do it very well! 🙂
Be blessed in our lovely Savior,
Susanne
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I am sorry to say that I have not arrived to this place, I am still in a world of hurt and alone for the most part. But, I can say that I am dying out and drying out in this dry and very dark time. Your words do bring me some comfort and a much needed insight as to what my Father is doing deep within me. Thank you for this my friend.
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You are so welcome, Susie.
Yes, it is a long way with many ups and downs. And hurting because of dying out and drying out is anything but pleasant. I know times when nothing can give me any comfort, neither what I read (in the Bible or elsewhere) nor the presence of God. Actually, when His presence only causes pain, I would love to run. But where on earth could I hide myself where He has not been before? So, the only thing we can do is to pray for one another and thus to try to carry our brothers and sisters through prayer into the brighter times that lie ahead of us.
Will keep praying for you, dear sister! ❤ ❤ ❤
Love,
Susanne xx
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My dad & my family : 4 kids.All in our were full-time Christians. We all except Mom, had mental problems. Dad, me, a sister, & niece were bipolar. In 1945, we lived on a farm in East Tennessee, Dad was an important Christian in his church. He was stressed with it because of a problem with the pastor. He had a fatal manic episode with a psychotic reaction. The only other time with him with mania was at time he suffered fractured both arms. Mom said that he wanted to be a Christian missionary.
THIS WAS AN ABSURD REQUEST. My niece has been in and out of hospitals all her adult life. She could easily get a job all she quit. Herbert Orr
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I am so sorry to hear of your family’s mental problems, dear Herbert.
Honestly, I do not really know what to say right now, struggling myself – with my old self… 😦
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I will take that prayer as well, please Susanne!!! What more can I say that isn’t already said?!
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Thanks so much for your wonderful comment, dear Ngozi – so humble and loving. ❤ You really encouraged me today, my sister! And I will keep praying for you too!! Promise!
May He bless you with His presence,
Susanne xoxo
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Wow dear Susanne. You had me asking “what did I say?”
No, YOU just encouraged me with your reply because you ,indeed, found some good out of my comment, which I posted out of resignation and fatigue.
Truth is I can relate to all that has been written and much more.
Was wondering if i had the energy to post a similar comment when your last comment inspired me to write mine.
We all need prayers. I will be praying for you all brothers and sisters. Please remember me in yours. it is a dying and drying time indeed. Lord help!
Peace be unto you x
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Oh Ngozi, it seems to me that it was also what you didn’t say explicitly, but what I sensed your heart telling me while reading your reply and I tried to answer to what I perceived.
I am glad that you have been encouraged as well, my dear. Yes, I know resignation and fatigue as well. Not funny those dying times, indeed. 😦
I will keep you close to my heart in my prayers, for sure, and I believe others will do the same when they read your response on here!
Together we’ll make it…alone we can’t take it!
Peace be unto you, too xx
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Thank you xxx
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…and AMEN to your prayer dear Susanne.
Thank you so much. I pray same and more for you xxx
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Thank YOU, dear Ngozi! May you be blessed immensely!!!
Susanne xoxo
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This goes along great with a video I watched yesterday. The guy on there was so loving that even when he got hit in his brand new truck he still had love and compassion on the lady that hit his truck. He was saying he is showing Christ in him self that way.
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Hmm… Not sure, but if someone points to Christ in himself, that must be the old self, I believe. Self-forgetfulness is the goal, which comes from beholding Him, not from admiring oneself. I do not believe everything I hear or see. We truly need his spirit to discern the truth from the lies.
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ya and I will admit I have trouble with that. which is why I get confused a lot.
I get far off track and I get nudged back on track. Thanks again.
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You’re very welcome, Fred.
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