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Baptism in the Holy Spirit, being born again, following Jesus, God's love, John of the Cross, John Tauler, justification, sanctification, spiritual maturity, Taylor Marshall, the dark night of the soul, the dark night of the spirit, the new self, the old self
On a walk in the evening – Südstadtpark Fürth
(Photo by Susanne Schuberth)
It has been quite some time since I have wanted to deepen the issue of “The Dark Night of the Soul”, yet I did not know how to tackle that task which is anything but easy. Due to the fact that I can only write about what I know AND have already experienced, I have had to go through very deep and extremely painful valleys of dying to self recently so that I began to see more clearly what particularly the second part of the dark night is all about. A dear brother pointed me recently in an email to the excerpt I posted below and a dear sister told me yesterday that she has been plunged into God’s dark night as well. So I thought, if you like, we could begin to delve into that topic which deals both with the justification and perfect sanctification of our souls. If the whole dark night is over, our hearts will be so pure that they can behold the eternal God forever as Jesus promised in the Sermon on the Mount,
“Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.” (Mt 5:8 ESV)
Below there’s an excerpt from Dr. Taylor Marshall about the different ages we all experience on our way to God – with Jesus who is The Way. If someone wants to know where he or she might stand currently (speaking spiritually, of course), you might find it helpful to read this short exposition. Nonetheless, if you are still insecure where you might find yourself at the moment after having read it, don’t you worry! The most important thing is to know that we are all on the same path, no matter whether someone has just begun or another one has already reached the goal. It makes perfect sense to me that we are not all in the same stages at the same time since thus the (spiritually) older ones (elders in the original sense of the word) can help the young ones to grow up more and more. It is also important to acknowledge that the most spiritual believers are those who are always humble and willing to learn, even from those who have just begun their way with God and Jesus. What we can also observe is that the Christian, while growing up, is being transformed from a self-centered human being that rejoices in every spiritual high and abhors every spiritual low to a God-centered and selfless human being that is more interested in helping others to grow up than in its own comfortable condition. He and she also have learned to be less critical, but more and more compassionate toward everyone.
Eventually, here’s the short summary about “The Dark Night of the Soul”.
According to Saint Paul and Saint John of the Cross and the masters of Mystical Theology, such as John Tauler, the spiritual life consists in three ages: Beginners (Purgative Way), Proficients (Illuminative Way), Perfect (Unitive Way). Incidentally, by Perfect we mean not absolute perfection (like the saints in Heaven) but relative perfection. These three ages mirror natural human life: Childhood, Adolescence, Adulthood. Just as these three stages are transitioned by a crisis, so also progress in the spiritual life is marked by crisis.
Saint John of the Cross, the Doctor of the Church with regard to Mystical Theology, teaches that the transition from the Purgative to the Illuminative is occasioned by the “Dark Night of the Senses” and the transition from the Illuminative to the Unitive is occasioned by the Dark Night of the Spirit.
Beginners (Purgative Way)
Dark Night of Senses
Proficients (Illuminative Way)
Dark Night of the Spirit
Perfect (Unitive Way)
The Dark Night of the Senses is the crisis in which God purposefully withdraws consolations of the senses. Warm fuzzies in prayer. Discursive pictorial visions in the imagination, physical comfort, lack of external distraction.
This is very difficult because the Christian begins to worry that he is regressing or has done something to lose God’s favor. Instead, God is preparing him to enter more deeply in the love of God. The soul learns to seek the God of consolation, but not merely the consolations of God. Perhaps this Dark Night of the Senses is one of the most misunderstood elements of daily Christian living.
The Dark Night of the Spirit or Dark Night of the Soul is a crushing desolation where the soul learns to love the cross of Christ. With a desire to be more like Christ and to share in His life, the perfect learn to love persecution, humiliations, disgrace, and other problems in life since they see in them a perfect conformity to God.
(Read the rest here http://taylormarshall.com/2012/09/the-difference-between-dark-night-of.html)
Additionally, I believe that the following Scriptures might be helpful to express the desires of the heart of someone who has come to know his utter dependence on the Living God alone. King David said,
“Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from your presence, and take not your Holy Spirit from me. Restore to me the joy of your salvation, and uphold me with a willing spirit. Then I will teach transgressors your ways, and sinners will return to you.” (Ps 51:10-13 ESV)
I appreciate and have noted some quotes from above on a pad of paper. Most notably: “The Dark Night of the Senses is the crisis in which God purposefully withdraws consolations of the senses. Warm fuzzies in prayer…lack of external distraction.” Spot on for where I’m being asked to go. The last 48 hours I have fought against it. Justifying and leaning more on the reasons (read excuses) why I should stay than on the whispered call to go. I am afraid. As a woman of the senses and knowing full well that some of my identity is still intermingled in things untrue. But I am still afraid. And yet, I will go. The poem of old always comes to mind (you would have to search it online) Others May, You May Not. The words have haunted me since 2009.
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My dear Becky,
I believe I do know what you meant by saying,
“I am afraid. As a woman of the senses and knowing full well that some of my identity is still intermingled in things untrue. But I am still afraid. And yet, I will go.” 😦
I have felt the same, both before the first night and also before the second. Nonetheless, He carries us through and, what is very important too, we can help one another through these nights by praying for one another and share our burdens (Gal 6:2). I began my walk in 1995 with prestages of the first night which deepened in 2008 and was finished in 2009. I was always alone, also when I entered into the first stages of the second night in 2010.
Today I am so grateful to have brothers and sisters who share my burdens even via virtual fellowship which truly helps a lot. So, if you are afraid right now, you may know that I will continue to carry you on my heart and in my prayers. If you need help and/or encouragement, you have my email addy, dear Becky. So, don’t you worry, please, my sister – you are not alone!!
Much love ❤ and virtual hugs,
Susanne
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As I returned to Christ after a long time in the far off country, I would spend the next few years in a bubble, it would seem. So much death falling from my prodigal life. Truth be told, I hated it. More truth be told, it was more than necessary. It feels hard and strange to step away from a thing I presumed was my “purpose.” Yet, I believe it is time. However, walking away from the social aspect of social media has terrified me these last days, as the final day for me is Saturday. I have quit many things before, in blind faith, jumping into the great Unknown. I am surrounded by people and culture that doesn’t understand such foolishness or swimming upstream. I covet your prayers.
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I think I fully understand where you are coming from, dear Becky. Blind faith is a difficult thing, indeed, but our hearts “know” where we should go while our mind might still doubt, again and again. You are on the right path, my sister. I’d highly appreciate your prayers for me as well.
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Yes. Prayers. It is my pleasure, Susanne.
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Dear Becky, You are definitely at a crossroads, “The Road Less Traveled.” Narrow is the gate that leads to eternal life (eternity living in us!).” But I can tell you that it is worth it. I spent 14 years in the dark night of my soul which was so accurately described above. It should have been the most productive time of my life. I had been empowered with the gifts of the Spirit and was “at the top of my game.” THAT was the problem… it was MY GAME! I was in my prime! Then I dared to ask God how HE saw me and it was my undoing. I was filled with pride through and through. Father faced me with the same decision. Would I “find my life” and lose it or would I lay down my life so I could find the Life of Christ unbound by my flesh? Believe me, THIS is the road less traveled in modern Christendom. “And few be they who find it.”
“For the bodies of those animals, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned outside the camp. Therefore Jesus also… suffered outside the gate. Let us go forth therefore unto him outside the camp, bearing his reproach. For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.”
(Hebrews 13:11-14 KJ2000)
Remember, my friend, that once the wilderness has purged us of all that Egypt of Christendom in us… “We have an altar, of which they have no right to eat who serve the tabernacle.” (Hebrews 13:10 KJ2000). IT IS WORTH IT ALL!!!
Praying for you, my dear sister,
Michael
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I was just reminded of a short prayer which also helped my to face my fears during the dark night of the soul. Here it is.
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Thank you! I just copied that down & will post it on my kitchen cupboard. It is true. I know in my spirit that it is true.
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You’re most welcome, Becky! 🙂
I am so glad you like it too – same spirit! ❤
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Suzanne, that is the best description of “The Dark Night of the Soul” I’ve ever read. So many in the world seem to think it is a type of mental and emotional depression, but to the spiritual person, it is so much more than that, although there can be aspects of that as well, as we pass through the dark portals.
Why it should be that this life we live should be one of such suffering, I try to understand and accept as part of the way we learn obedience as Christ did, through the things that He suffered, but I know that it is necessary. That is because the flesh rebels against suffering, just as it does against the spiritual life. The Way to the Cross is fraught with much suffering and pain, but it is the ONLY way possible to attain that which we so long for, a closer spirit walk, and to knowing the Lord in a greater measure. If we were to attempt to circumvent the Cross, we would never come to that place in the spirit that transcends our thought processes, into a “knowing”, a supernatural way of being that the world is unable to comprehend. And…even in that there is pain and suffering because of the alone-ness we suffer as a result. Would we give that up to make out life more comfortable by conforming to the world and the weak and beggarly elements? No, we’ve come to far in this journey to ever be satisfied with less, no matter what the cost.
I’ve been through so many dark and painful valleys of various kinds, I’ve lost count. It never seems to end. The greatest thing the Lord has taught me through all this is simply to trust Him, no matter what may befall. And He has never let me down in all these years.
Thank you for your insights lovely sister,
In Jesus lov
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Thank you very much both for your encouragement and for your touching testimony of your own walk with Him, dear Scarlett. 🙂
Yes, there is a time when we need to give up on counting the valleys and simply endure whatever might come in the sense of “Thy will be done, not mine.” It is indeed a journey of trust as you properly said. The longer the path, the more we see that He alone enables us to trust in Him. Only in the dark valleys we are somehow blinded by the light and are inclined to think that we might have fallen far behind, which is never true, but God does not want to make us see our progess and spiritual beauty in order to keep us from falling as Lucifer did, beholding himself and beginning to adore himself more than God.
You’re most welcome to everything I can offer, my sweet and lovely sister! ❤
Love you,
Susanne
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Susanne, this is so true. God does not want us “believing our own press releases,” as one man put it… Those who are walking in the love of God do not spend their time admiring (or picking apart) themselves in the mirror of self-reflection. I like what Oswald Chamber wrote here,
“Most of us live only within the level of consciousness — consciously serving and consciously devoted to God. This shows immaturity and the fact that we’re not yet living the real Christian life. Maturity is produced in the life of a child of God on the unconscious level, until we become so totally surrendered to God that we are not even aware of being used by Him. When we are consciously aware of being used as broken bread and poured-out wine, we have yet another level to reach— a level where all awareness of ourselves and of what God is doing through us is completely eliminated. A saint is never consciously a saint— a saint is consciously dependent on God.”
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Indeed, Michael, I have been thinking of that very thing as well, I mean, Oswald Chambers’ devotional. 😉
Very good! 🙂
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Don’t know if or how this relates to what you are saying ,other than it seems to be a progression , but this scripture came to mind while i was reading your article- 1Jn.2 12-14 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name’s sake.
13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one. Do you have any thoughts ?
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The above brother spoke about fathers, young men, & children like they are living in good relationship with one another. So. the fathers probably fulfill Ist Peter ch 5 v 5.
“You younger men…be subject to your elders…clothe yourself with humility toward one another for GOD IS OPPOSED TO THE PROUD BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE. You
may have read in the message that also mentioned “HUMILITY.
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Very well said, Bernie. Thank you for reminding us of 1st Peter 5:5. That is a very important Scripture in this context! 🙂
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Ha! YESSS, Wayne – very good!!! 🙂
Absolutely, these verses describe exactly those three different spiritual (st)ages:
(1) little children
(2) young men
(3) fathers
Little children still struggle with sin, young men have overcome the flaming darts of the evil one, and fathers are completely ONE with God and everything that He has created. I remember that I wrote elsewhere (on another blog) about it, maybe two or three years ago, but I am not sure at the moment where it was…. 🙄 …. Maybe, the Lord reminds me again.
Thanks so much for listening to His Spirit, my dear brother. And I am glad to see you back on here. In fact, I was already wondering where you were because I missed your comments!
Love,
Susanne
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Susanne – i have been here all along reading yours and others articles. After i read i ask the Lord if He has anything to say through me and sometimes He just shuts me down. i think of all these wonderful things to say 🙂 sometimes i even write them down and erase them cause it’s just not Him and He’s the Boss. If the Lord reminds you of your insight into that scripture i would like to hear it. i have some also but this isn’t place for it.
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Yes, we all know this “shutting down”, don’t we, if we really listen to Him…
I will surely tell you if He reminds me of that very thing once again. Promise, Wayne! 🙂
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Found it, Wayne. Thank God! 🙂
I post the links to two of my comments here which I originally wrote on TT’s (i.e. Tullian Tchivijian’s) blog three years ago. The replies belong together. Please, keep in mind that my comments, esp. the second, were addressed to churchgoers since Tullian is a pastor and one or two of the commenters there as well.
(1) http://www.pastortullian.com/2012/02/16/dying-to-live/#comment-7738
(2) http://www.pastortullian.com/2012/02/16/dying-to-live/#comment-7742
Maybe, you let me know your insights into that Sripture now, my brother. Lord willing, as always… 😉
God bless,
Susanne
PS
I just saw that the links directly “touch down” at the beginning of Tullian’s article, not in the comments section, nor even display my replies. So, just in case you want to read them, though, please, scroll down a bit…
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Michael spoke of maturity. To continue this in regard to young being taught by elders one surely get help by reading Paul’s writing to Timothy: in 1st. he called him a child in the faith. the 2nd:a son. Just to mention a couple:
Ist Timothy 1 v 5: to love from a pure heart, good conscious, and sincere faith.Then, 2nd Tim. v 5 reminded him about his faith was down from mother and grandmother. Paul also, reminded him that he knew the scripture which is able to give wisdom. Then he tells him the VALUE OF THIS ISTHE PURPOSE OF THESE SCRIPTURES: FOR TEACHING, CORRECTION, AND TRAINING IN RIGHTEOUSNESS. 2nd Tim. 3 vs 14-16. Back to the relation between his elders they could praise God together like the Psalmist in 145 vs 1-13 …vs 3-4 “GREAT IS THE LORD AND HIGHLY TO BE PRAISED, FOR HIS GREATNESS IS UNSEARCHABLE: ONE GENERATION SHALL PRAISE THY WORKS TO ANOTHER AND DECLARE THY MIGHTY ACTS.
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These Scriptures are appropriate, Bernie. Thank you! 🙂
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I read as a new Christian Susanne a book called ‘Hinds feet on high places’. It is an amazing book an analogy of our walk with Christ and I feel I am walking along an empasse that seems nigh on impossible, yet there is a strength within me which I know is of God. Many years ago I went to Wales with my husband before my daughter was born and we started to walk on Ben Nevis the mountain. It is such a beautiful spot. Then we wanted to go higher and we had to take the train but the train was forced to stop because the mist that came down was so dense no-one could get up. I was so disappointed not to reach the top. I feel like I am in that same place. You can only go as far as you can with God and with the strength He gives you for that moment. You cannot push your way, you cannot manipulate your way through a passage that is not ready for you. This morning I had so many questions to ask God and I heard his voice so clearly and I knew it was crystal clear to re-assure me. There are questions sometimes we have to hold back for another time ….. there are answers at certain point in our lives which we are not ready for and in my frustration I feel like a child saying ‘but I want to know NOW!’. But in my adult reasonable mind I know I must trust and the LORD kept saying ‘Trust me’ so many times this morning, lovingly of course. I have been through several dark night of the souls at different periods in my walk with God and none of them are the same, this one now is very different to all of them I have had but I found myself doing this morning was surrendering everything, absolutely everything. Even in the dark soul of the night we are still walking with Him. Many think, I did too, that nothing is happening but I believe a greater work in the heart is happening and a great preparing for something yet to be revealed …… these are just my thoughts and experiences Susanne. Many blessings love jacqui xx
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I am truly glad that Scarlett replied to you before me, dear Jacqui, because I never read that book by Hannah Hurnard. But I know a sister who told me about it and I believe there was surely God’s inspiration it. I am thinking here of “sister” Much Afraid that should be pierced through her heart. She was afraid, of course, as we all are, but there is no other way to come to know real love but through spiritual piercing pains and birth pangs until the flesh and its loud voice is dead.
Oh, what a beautiful picture you described above when you had been with your husband on Ben Nevis mountain!!! I really love it, Jacqui! 🙂 It even seems to me being a kind of prophetic message for your walk with Him too…
Scarlett is right, your words are very wise and I do believe that God has been doing a lot while you have been suffering lately so much and before as well. We never see what He does in us until the mist is gone and we stand on the mountain top (Mount Tabor). But if we have arrived on the top, we will gladly go down again and help those you are still surrounded by that dense mist and share their sufferings instead of enjoying our “own glory” so that we all can come in the unity of the faith (Eph 4:13).
Every blessing and all my love to you ❤
Susanne xx
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Susanne, thank you! I actually didn’t see Scarlett’s reply so I have two to look at today for encouragement! Do you know what came to my mind was when Jesus took the disciples up to the mountain and a cloud descended with both Elijah and Moses appearing …. remember? Of course you do! And then the clarity of God’s Voice from heaven saying ‘Listen to Him’ …..I don’t know why this should come to my mind but it does. It’s like when the mist clears much more clarity comes ….. so thank you dear Susanne … jacqui xx
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WOW!! Yes, you’re right….the voice said, “Listen to Him”. Glad you reminded me. Indeed, I had forgotten about it completely. 😛
Thank YOU, my dear sister. ❤
Susanne xoxo
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What a beautiful statement Susanne!
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Thank you, Stacey. 🙂
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I am familiar with that book Jacqui. It has solaced and brought encouragement and comfort to so many. There is also a beautifully illustrated children’s version I would highly recommend for parents to give to their children.
You are so right, that there are things in the spirit we are not ready for. Our teacher, Jesus, knows when we are ready for the next step. We would surely mess up if we didn’t wait for Him and tried to rush forward before we are ready. The five year old child is taught to set the table, while the 15 yr old learns to bake the cake.
It’s obvious from your profound wisdom that your sufferings have brought you to a higher plane in the spirit. Oh, how I love that light of Jesus shining forth from you.
Love and blessings of the day,
Scarlett
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Scarlett, first of all what a beautiful name! Thank you so much for your encouragement, do you know this time I prayed to God to show me what to right and the memory of Ben Nevis was very clear and the mist and then I understood. Oh how I should pray more often! Believe me Scarlett I take no credit for wisdom I have prayed for it constantly and yes God gives without measure to those who ask! Unfortunately, or fortunately depends upon which way you look at it, the silver lining is through suffering – it’s the way of following Jesus. God bless and thank you! jacqui xx
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I want you sisters to know how much your loving fellowship has blessed me to read. I see so much maturity as well as growth among you all.
Michael
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There is no doubt about the growth stuff–I know because ive had 40 years of it as a born from above saint and boy I am sure I will be experiencing it for all of eternity.
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Yes, Kenneth, I believe we will keep growing for all of eternity. Probably no longer in these three categories, but in heavenly categories we cannot even imagine yet.
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Reading your blog is likely drinking the water from a deep well. Thank you, Susanne, for having created such a special place for souls who love Christ to congregate.
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Oh, dear Anna! You are such a lovely blessing from God! WOW!!! 🙂
Your comment truly made my day which was not thaaat wonderful until now. Thank you sooo much for being YOU!
Love ❤ ❤ ❤
Susanne xoxo
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Anna, I agree! God has put such a healing heart in Susanne. It is a real blessing to be on this blog with her and these other dear saints… truly a rare thing in this world of confusion and chaos.
Susanne, I am praying the rest of your day is better.
“The LORD is there to rescue all who are discouraged and have given up hope. The LORD’s people may suffer a lot, but he will always bring them safely through.”
(Psalms 34:18-19 CEV)
Michael
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Thank you very much, Michael! You may know that your prayer has been heard by God. Doing waaay better right now! 🙂
Love,
Susanne
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Susanne- read your replies to article on T.T.s page my understanding from what i read is that we believe the same about the scripture showing progression i think 🙂 got a little dizzy reading the sparring of doctrine from those guys , the Lord rebuked me awhile back for using the sword , His word, for fencing , but thats just me . the insight i have you are probably familiar with in the types and shadows. for instance with little children same as passover in the feast and outer court in the tabernacle in the wilderness. young men Pentecost Holy Place. and Fathers tabernacles and Holy of Holies if i go into detail it gets a little long winded. but just a little the outer court refers to repentance, the Holy Place to sanctification, and Holy of Holies glorification.With little children- sins are forgiven having to do with the outer court and sacrifice, brazen alter ( Sacrifice and death ) and laver -covered round about with mirrors and filled with water Ps.51:2 wash and cleansed from iniquity ( mirrors – seeing your iniquity-repentance and baptized into His death ). in 1Jn. it says that Jesus came by water and blood. 1Jn5:8 on earth 3 that bare witness the Spirit , blood and water heb.9:14 Jesus by , or through , the Holy Spirit ,was empowered , not my will but thy will be done , to offer himself up to death on the cross,the same with us. nothing in our flesh want’s to die.Rom8:13 but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. it is the Spirit , Jesus life in us ,that empowers us if we yield ( not my will but your will- God resist the proud but gives grace to the humble ) to take up our cross on a daily basis and die to our self life. now i’m a little dizzy reading my stuff 🙂 those types and shadows, children, young men, fathers, can go on and on but they have alot of truth in them. it still amazes me how it all connects and points to Jesus and our life in Him. Now to a story about T.T.’s church Coral Ridge . i lived in Ft. Laud. Fl. for 50yrs. the home of C.R.P. the pastor then was D.J Kennedy.i was there a few times but it wasn’t for me. i worked with some builders that were some of his leadership and when they found out i was a beleiver i got shovel fed there doctrine whether i wanted it or not. sometimes you have to eat crow to get work. i have read some of the articles you posted by T.T. and they are insightful .Since Fla. i have moved to Ga. last yr i was starting to get a group together and one of the young couples that came , shades of FT. laud. ,was steeped in Presbyterian doctrine and tried to shovel feed it to me. some things never change, except i didn’t need them for work so i put a stop to that and they left. After they left i found out they were closing in a loft space and needed some help so i went and helped them . wanted to show them just because i didn’t want there doctrine didn’t mean i didn’t love them as a brother and sister. i am being a little long winded it’s time to stop. ~ wayne
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Glad we agree, Wayne. 😉
Thanks so much for sharing the OT types referring to that Scripture here. I never thought about it before and I always love to learn something new when it comes from His Spirit.
You are so right, my brother. Back then I commented rather often on Tullian’s blog and those doctrinal fights and sometimes personal attacks were really unnerving. 😛 Nonetheless, the Lord taught me thus how to graciously take a stand. Insofar it made sense to me (that “lesson”, that is). And like you I say, “Love first, then doctrine.”
What a coincidence that you even lived in Fort Lauderdale! Somehow funny… What I read about Kennedy who had been pastor before TT, was that he would be extremely conservative. TT is more liberal because he made bad experiences in church with being “beaten down” by THE LAW.
Thank you also for sharing your “Florida testimony” on here, Wayne. Much appreciated!
Love,
Susanne
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These are such lovely words of wisdom. I really enjoyed reading this and all the comments.
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I am happy to hear you that you enjoyed both the post and all the comments, Gabrielle. 🙂 Although it needs some time to read through long comment threads, it is always worth it, I believe. Everyone comes from another perspective and adds to complete the whole picture of any issue. For me it is always thrilling to see how others deal with what I have written and to come to know their own experiences.
Thank you so very much for your encouragement, Gabrielle. ❤ Actually, YOU are a great writer! How often I not only smile when I read your articles. In fact, sometimes I really break out into laughter because you not only have a way with words but a special kind of humor which I really like.
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Speaking of our loving community on this blog, I found this quote from Henry Nouwen this morning…
“The important question is, “Do we have a circle of trustworthy friends where we feel safe enough to be intimately known and called to an always greater maturity?” Just as we lift up our glasses to people we trust and love, so we lift up the cup of our life to those from whom we do not want to have secrets and with whom we want to form community.
“When we do want to drink our cup and drink it to the bottom, we need others who are willing to drink their cups with us. We need community, a community in which confession and celebration are always present together. We have to be willing to let others know us if we want them to celebrate life with us. When we lift our cups and say “to life,” we should be talking about real lives, not only hard, painful, sorrowful lives, but also lives so full of joy that celebration becomes a spontaneous response.” ~ Henri Nouwen, “Can You Drink the Cup?”
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Really great quotes, Michael! Thanks so much for sharing them on here.
I believe we can only trust those with who God has put us together. If there are two or three (or more) believers who set their minds on Christ and His (spiritual) life first, we know that we may trust them because we have the same eternal goal and our Lord adjusts our thinking, speaking and acting. Alas, this is not possible with “worldly” friendships as I had to (painfully) realize in the past.
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I think that what Henri Nouwen wrote here is what John in his letter to the church was talking about when he said,
“And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
(1 John 1:4-9 KJV)
Yes, these kind of relationships that are centered on the Love of Jesus are very rare indeed, but oh, how rejuvenating and vital they are when we find them!
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Yes, those relationships are very rare, yet they do exist and eventually end all our feelings of loneliness on our walk with Him. The Scripture you quoted is very appropriate, Michael, and I was just reminded of another one written in the same letter.
“Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world. And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever.” (1 Jn 2:15-17 ESV)
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And Susanne, those who abide in the love of our Father are the ones who are doing His will. Here is another quote from Henri Nouwen
“When we honestly ask ourselves which person in our lives means the most to us, we often find that it is those who, instead of giving advice, solutions, or cures, have chosen rather to share our pain and touch our wounds with a warm and tender hand.”
Henri Nouwen
Susanne, you have been such a person to many of us. Thank you so much.
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You are most welcome, my dear brother. You know that you have been such a person to me as well. Thank YOU very much, Michael!
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To follow Wayne.s glorification in then HOLY OF HOLIES. I AGREE WITH HIM. I WILL SAY WHAT I BELIEVE GLORIFICATION MEANS: FIRST OF ALL: THE CURTAIN IN THE TEMPLE WAS TORN FROM TOP TO BOTTOM WHEN JESUS DIED. THIS MEANS WE CAN WORSHIP IN THE HOLY OF HOLIES. I LIKE A CHRISTIAN WORSHIP SONG THAT FITS: “COME INTO THE HOLY OF HOLIES, WORSHIP BY THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB. ENTER IN HIS PRESENCE WITH SINGING.. WORSHIP JESUS. TAKEN FROM HEBREWS 10 VS 19-23
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Yes, that was a very good explanation, Bernie. We can now enter the Holy of Holies because “THE CURTAIN IN THE TEMPLE WAS TORN FROM TOP TO BOTTOM WHEN JESUS DIED.”
It is only through Christ’s Spirit that we can enter God’s presence. I believe it is no coincidence that in the verse before Jesus had already died (“yielded up his spirit [to God]”, cf. Mt 27:50). It is the same for us. Although we can enter God’s presence through Christ’s Spirit simply by searching Him (whether through prayer or singing), the Holy of Holies cannot be entered before our old self/old man has died completely and we have given up on our own life.
Thanks so much for your timely input, my brother! 🙂
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Susanne, Along with what you wrote, “the Holy of Holies cannot be entered before our old self/old man has died completely and we have given up on our own life.” Yes!
“For the bodies of those animals whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest as a sacrifice for sin are burned outside the camp. So Jesus also suffered outside the gate in order to sanctify the people through his own blood. Therefore let us go forth to him outside the camp and bear the abuse he endured. For here we have no lasting city, but we seek the city which is to come.” (Hebrews 13:11-14 RSVA)
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Amen. Thanks so much for confirmation, Michael!! 🙂
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WE ARE TO DIE DAILY. This is how I do it: Tabernacle in desert: altar of burnt
offering: sins atoned for with animal sacrifice. Priests: washing in laver to be
clean before entering the Holy Place. Inside: bread table, 7 lamp stick when lit
provided light for this place. Altar of incense, then Holy of Holies covered by
curtain. inside Holy of Holies: Ark with inside: 10 commandments, rod that
budded, & jar of manna. Above ark: mercy seat. covered with angels.. This
tabernacle was begun with blood sprinkled over everything. So, now with
my prayers daily: Blood sprinkled represents CHRIST’S SHEDDING BLOOD FOR
ME JESUS SHED HIS BLOOD FOR ME (animal sacrifice) So, I ask Him to
forgive me of my sins. Next, laver: I ASKED HIM TO WASH ME WITH THE
WATER OF THE WORD:” Eph. 25-26.) Inside the Holy place I RECOGNIZE
JESUS IS THE BREAD OF LIFE (JOHN 6 V 35). & lamp stand: MINISTRY
OF THE HOLY SPIRIT: 7 LAMPS ( Isaiah 11 v 2) altar of incense: (PRAYERS OF THE SAINTS: Rev 8 v 3. Holy of Holies as stated above.) mercy seat:: MERCY=
GOD’S LOVINGKINDNESS. MOST IMPORTANT:GOD’S MERCY COVERS
JUDGEMENT (THE LAW: 10 COMMANDENTS) So as Michael says: CHRIST
WITH HIS LOVINGKINDNESS FULFILLED THE LAW. So, I hope you see
I hope that I die daily. Tabernacle is a PICTURE OF THAT IN HEAVEN:
HEBREWS: 9 VS 23-24. ALSO, I AM A MEMBER OF GOD’S HOLY
PRIESTHOOD. 1ST PETER2 V 9.When I have gone thru all this I sing:’Into Thy presents I come, not by the works I have done but by Thy grace alone. Then, I am in position to petition God for myself and others.
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Dear Susanne,
I just found your blog and wanted to share that It was an extreme comfort and blessing to read about the stages of spiritual growth. I’ve been born again for two and a half years. From almost day one of my rebirth and the Father has directed me through what I would consider an extreme Dark night of the senses and discipline extending to every single area of my life. He is now preparing me for the Dark night of the spirit and that it will be a “crushing desolation”. As you can imagine this has all required a great deal of obedience and ongoing adaptation. I am a very different person than I was two and a half years ago. I’m also not part of any congregation at this time so coming across your blog was a much needed breath of fresh air and sense of fellowship. I am so relieved to have the insight that my process is a natural part of spiritual growth , albeit expedited. Thank you so much for the encouragement.
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Oh, dear Lisa,
You are very welcome as to the encouragement! 🙂
I am so glad you found my blog helpful for what you have been going through yourself. If you want to share more with me about your own Dark Night (of the Senses), I offer you to write me an email. If you like, you could “pour your heart completely out”. I know how difficult it is to go through such painful times alone since it is very hard to find someone who really understands. There are only a few people who know the dark night(s) from their own experience. So, just in case you feel inclined to write me, I am going to send you a short email now so that you get to know my email addy too.
Much love to you ❤
Susanne from Bavaria
xoxo
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I think I am confused as to where I am at. I do desire to be more like Christ.
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