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freedom, God's love, Jesus Christ, living water, spiritual power, The Holy Spirit, worship in spirit and truth
Woman at the Well (Picture taken from http://catholicalcoholic.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/woman-at-the-well-5001.jpg)
Susanne (aka me 😉 ) wrote,“I was just pondering on the fact why we as human beings are not always the same. I mean, there are people with whom we dare to be more open than with others. People of whom we know that they love us and that they will forgive us whatever we might say or do. But there are other people we do not know that intimately and therefore we are a still bit cautious of how to deal with them.” (https://enteringthepromisedland.wordpress.com/2014/12/08/be-who-you-are-since-there-is-no-other-you/)
There is something that the Samaritan woman at Jacob’s well felt about Jesus that made her dare to be totally open with Him. When we hear the story about her preached, many like to say that Jesus confronted her with her sins. Susanne and I hold that this was not the case, but rather she was confronted with how much Jesus loved and respected her in spite of knowing what her past history was. She was shocked that He was even talking with her and asked her for a drink, knowing that Jews did not have anything to do with Samaritans, much less a Jewish man with a Samaritan woman! She was the dog of dogs in the mind of an orthodox Jewish Rabbi.
Yet, Jesus personally shared the gospel with her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that is saying to you, ‘Give me a drink,’ you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water” (John 4:10 RSVA). Jesus told her that He was the Gift of God and that as such He could give her the water of life that flows freely. “Whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst; the water that I shall give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life” (John 4:14 RSVA). What is amazing is that she did not for one moment doubt His offer that He could give her living water and eternal life! She responded, “Sir, give me this water, that I may not thirst, nor come here to draw.” (John 4:15 RSVA). She wanted all that He had for her because she realized that she had met the lover of her soul, the first man in her life who was not interested in what she had to offer him, but who wanted to give her what she really needed. We know that this man was God, too. A human being can never fill the void in our hearts which were created by God to only be filled with His Spirit. His love is the only love that can make us whole again.
Jesus, after offering her eternal life and she wanting it, pointed out to her that she was living with a man who was not her husband. Yet, where was the condemnation? It was not there! Rather He commended her for telling the truth, “I have no husband.” This woman felt no shame or condemnation from Him, only love and respect. And what was her response to this divine encounter? She said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ); when he comes, he will show us all things.” Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am he. ” …So the woman left her water jar, and went away into the city, and said to the people, ‘Come, see a man who told me all that I ever did. Can this be the Christ?’” (John 4:25-29 RSVA). Jesus had shown her in a few words the very inner thoughts and longings of her heart. Messiah had come and showed her all things including that men would no longer worship God in special buildings or in special places, but that true worship would be done by God’s Spirit within them from lives filled with and demonstrating His truth.
“Come, see a man who told me all that I ever did!” I don’t know about you, but we believe that if this woman had been shamed by what Jesus said to her, would she be telling everyone she knows that there is a man down by the well that knows every sin she ever committed? No, she would be hiding out in her house, hoping He would go away and keep silent! But she ran into her village and rejoiced for having met the Christ. THAT IS THE GOSPEL. She met LOVE personified. He showed her compassion and understood WHY she had sought love in men and had been married five times before. But He did not condemn her in the slightest, but rather told her about where to find eternal life and what real worship of our heavenly Father is all about; therefore she trusted in Him.
All too often the gospel today is presented to people in one of two extremes. On the one hand people get the idea that they have to “clean up their act” before they can come to Christ. The other extreme is that we can be a Christian without ever having to change a thing, we can just go on living in sin with impunity. Neither is true. But we finally see that the love our Father has for us is not contingent on our performance, for He makes the sun to shine and the rain to fall of both the bad and the good. We love Him because He first loves us. What follows from that love relationship is a longing to please the One who loves us so much. We are given the Spirit of God who speaks in our hearts when He wants us to change and what it is that pleases Him and it is because of our love relationship with our Father that we are empowered to change. Love is the most powerful motivator known to man and GOD IS LOVE.
I love this, very nice. The woman at the well, the woman with the perfume, the adulteress, the woman with the issue of blood, Christ does not point out their sins at all, quite the contrary. They are simply so trusting of the love they find, they are honest about who and what they are. There is no pride, no deception within them. Perfect love casts out fear.
Shaming can be a problem within Christianity, but I take the view that it is actually the original sin. God did not give us a spirit of shame. In the Garden, Adam and Eve acquire shame and cloth themselves, try to hide from God. Later when Christ is crucified, He is said to be “despising the shame. ”
Shame is simply the flip side of pride and pride is what separates us from God. The purpose of laying ourselves down at the foot of the cross and dying to self, is to receive the blood of the Lamb, redemption, mercy, to let go of pride. In Christ there is no condemnation, He has washed it away.
Submitting to Christ can make you absolutely shameless, something that can be a bit disturbing to those who have a need for control. With no pride, people have no shame buttons for other people to push.
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Thank you, dear Gabrielle. 🙂 Michael is absolutely right, there is a lot to think about in your comment above, it is so rich and deep! ⭐
That has been my observation while reading Genesis 1 as well: God did not give us a spirit of shame at all; it was only after having sinned that shame came in. And yes, pride can often be the flip side of shame. In my view there is also a kind of shame that comes from having been abused, esp. sexually, that causes a shame that has nothing to do with pride. Instead, it is the shame to have been “exploited” in a sexual way which can only be taken away by God who restores our “kaput” soul and our confidence of being worthy to be loved just the way we are and not because of only having “a body”. Abuse victims might know what I am speaking of here… 😦
BTW, I have always been a control freak which is truly unnerving! 😛 But alas, I cannot change myself. Therefore I am still awaiting to get a completely new heart from God – anytime.
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Gabrielle, this was great! Thanks.. much to think about. I will have to investigate that verse where He “despises the shame.” I feel that what Christ came to do was restore us to what Adam and Eve had before the fall and then some. They walked with Him in their innocence and were naked and unashamed. If we are truly IN Christ, we are no longer naked, but have “put on Christ.”
Yes, religious people are always trying to get us to look at our shortcomings so that they can get a leg over us and dominate us through guilt. Well, I am not going to join them any longer in their silly “reign deer games? There is no condemnation to those who are IN Christ Jesus. Amen!
Stay free, my sister! ⭐
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Oh, that sentence hit me, Michael. You wrote,
If we are truly IN Christ, we are no longer naked, but have “put on Christ.”
Very insightful! Thank you, I could hear His voice through these few words of yours. Made my day! 🙂
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I would think that the woman at the well was a gentile. IF so, she is in the category of Ruth and Rahab in the old testament. ALL 3 MADE A CONFESSION THAT GOD IS GOD. All thru the bible is stated that gentiles would b a part of the kingdom of God. The ONLY REQUIREMENT IS FOR THEM TO MAKE SUCH A CONFESSION! One of both Rehab’s & Ruth’s reward was that
they are listed in the GENEALOGY OF JESUS! Matt. 1 v 5 song: “JESUS GAVE HER WATER THAT WAS NOT FROM THE WELL: SHE WENT AWAY SINGING. SHE CAME BACK BRINGING OTHERS TO THE WATER THAT WAS NOT FROM THE WELL!”
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Wow, Bernie!! That was a great comment of yours! 🙂
The connection between OT and NT personified by Ruth and Rahab on the one hand, and the woman at the well on the other was very well put by you! ⭐
Do you have any idea why people in the Old Testament are more often called by their names and also described regarding their appearance while in the NT they often remain anonymous, both as to their names and looks? I have had some thoughts about that, but I am not sure. What do you think?
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Hi Susanne – here’s what stands out to me: in the Old Testament EVERY name means something (towns, people, countries, bodies of water). Possibly it has something to do with the Hebrew culture and mindset; but probably because real stories about entire lives of real people make up the content of the OT. God, however is the main character throughout,even though He is not a human person living on the earth. In the New Testament the Lord Jesus Christ is more than the main the character — He is the center, the point, the ONE. We don’t read the life stories of NT people — we only get highlights or bits about the people. Jesus is the focus — no need to give details that turn our attention away from Him. That’s kind of what it looks like to me — now you have given me something to think about as I go along in my studies! My antennae are up!
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WOWEE!!! ⭐
That was awesome, dear Lori! ❤ Am speechless now…
🙂
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Yes, Lori! That is exactly what God was telling me.. The Old Covenant was about people, prophets, priests, people in Christ’s blood line, etc. and law keeping, But the New Covenant is all about Christ and His body and a NEW Creation IN Him!
“In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets; but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. He reflects the glory of God and bears the very stamp of his nature, upholding the universe by his word of power. When he had made purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.” (Hebrews 1:1-3 RSVA)
Love you all! ❤
Michael
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Another WOW to you too, Michael! 🙂
Very, very well said! ⭐
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Michael, I think one reason I keep going back to Genesis is because it is before the law. The law and the nation of Israel don’t exist until after they get into the wilderness on their way to the land God promised to Abraham’s descendants. In Genesis God reveals Himself in so many ways through His interaction with those people. I tend to go back and forth a lot between Paul’s letters and Genesis — oh, and the gospel of John (with forays into other areas as well). As a new Christian, I was exposed too much to the law in subtle and not-so-subtle ways. Although I have learned how to approach those law books — I don’t seem to be drawn to them! I’m sure you get my meaning!!
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Thank you, Susanne! You really bless me. What a blessing, also, to read in this passage how Christ has inherited ALL things and holds ALL things in the universe together by the power of His might. But most of all, what a blessing it is that by His mighty power we are washed clean of our sins and that we are also now being conformed into the very image of the Son of God (See Romans ch. 8). As Paul put it,
“So let no one boast of men. For all things are yours, whether Paul or Apol’los or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future, all are yours; and you are Christ’s; and Christ is God’s.” (1 Corinthians 3:21-23 RSVA).
The O.T. was all about the law keeping (and the law breaking) of men and thus is about men and women in their weaknesses and only indirectly about Christ, speaking often in shadows and types of what was to come. BUT the New Covenant is all about Christ and His obedience to the Father and His ascent to the right hand of God where HE makes intercession for us by the power of His might. All things are ours IN Him. We belong to HIM, our lives are IN His life and He belongs to the Father from who comes all good things. Nothing has been left to us and nothing is left out. All we can do is rest in His marvelous grace and love. To strive to be righteous on our own is a direct insult to God and an over-estimation of who and what we think we are. Without Him we are but dust. Seeing His great power working for and in us is why the following verses give me great joy and hope…
“May the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be kept sound and blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. He who calls you is faithful, and he will do it.” (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 RSVA)
It is a joy to know you, Susanne, and a greater joy to watch Him working so mightily in you day by day. Amen! Wouldn’t it be great for us all to have the closeness that they had in the early church and see His working in each of our lives day by day?
“Now the company of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one said that any of the things which he possessed was his own, but they had everything in common. And with great power the apostles gave their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all.” (Acts 4:32-33 RSVA)
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You’re most welcome, Michael! 🙂
It is interesting that you see Him working, even mightily, in me since I see NOTHING, still. 😛 But it seems to be true that we only see Him working in others because I perceive amazing changes you have gone through during the last (almost 20) months.
“Great grace was upon them all …..yes, that would be wonderful to experience, I believe. One ❤ and one soul are something only God can give, it is a miracle which strengthens our faith in God when we have come to know this, right? 😉
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Yes, Lori, I DO get your meaning! In Genesis we read about the individual lives of men and women who lived life by having personal encounters with God and whom He guided and often saved out of terrible situations miraculously in a very personal way. I was able to find great solace during a hard time in my life when I was being stripped of everything by reading the lives of Abraham, Jacob, Joseph and Moses. With God it is all about us throwing ourselves on His mercy and grace and not about our efforts at law keeping, for it is “NOT by might or by power, but by MY SPIRIT says the Lord.”
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YES, Susanne, it is truly amazing when God builds His house and fitly shapens and joins all the pieces together and adheres them with His love!
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Amen, my brother. Artfully expressed! 🙂
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In thinking about what you have said, many women like her: not named. The one
with perfume on Jesus, the adulterous, the Syro- Phoenocian woman, woman with
issue of blood. Only Mary and Martha mentioned, if i remember, were named
men: Roman Centurian, the 2 on the cross. the 10 lepers ,demon possessed man little boy with the food..Scribes. Pharisees But, Caiaphas, the high priest. Nicodemos, Joseph of Arimathea,Zaccheus, Blind Bartamous, the 2 Lazuras’s Jairious’s daughter.were some named.
Acts & letters by Paul both men & women : many were named especially Romans
ch 16: 1-16. I hope that this has not been a greater answer for you.
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Wonderful how many you can recall so easily, Bernie. I admit that I still wonder WHY some were mentioned with their names and others without… 🙄
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Good point Bernie – Paul was writing personal, and church, letters — so we do see more names there than we do in the gospels. It would be interesting to separate out the places where, in the Gospels, names are given, from places where they are not and see what gives! One thing I love about Paul’s letters is how utterly personal they are. And when I read his letters, I hear the Lord speaking those words to me personally (since it’s inspired Scripture and all). Paul had a huge heart for those people like God the Father has a huge heart for us. You can especially see that in his prayers for the churches (Ephesians and Colossians). Sometimes I think names are provided so that the history, like in Acts, is verifiable. People that can be traced in secular history show that our Bible is not a fairy tale! Jesus is mentioned in secular history along with those other guys.
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YESSS! Specific names were written down with regard to their historical verifiability, that is what I thought, too, Lori! 🙂
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You keep writing about names got me remember the significance of a word. I was
reminded that when you hear a word: which is a sound with meaning to some one
and when spoken to others stating what this sound means to them. You can also
react to it. Chances are ,when you first learned about “Jesus” it was spoken with some
of the great things he has done and who He is to that person. If you remember
what was said then the next time you heard the word “Jesus” or even in the Bible
you can recall what was said. As you read about Him, you can can get more information about Him to add to your knowledge. To John ch 1 v 1 for some reason
he used the word “WORD” TO MEAN “JESUS” So, just about you ? about names,
I wonder why he did that! EVEN SO, READING THE word “Word” you know it is
about Jesus. “WORD WAS GOD” then you can read some of the GREAT THINGS
JESUS MEANS TO HIM ALL THE REST OF THE BOOK. At the end of the book
he was so, I guess: “frustrated” that he could not say more: “HE SAID EVEN IF
EVERYTHING WAS WRITTEN ABOUT HIM THE WORLD COULD NOT CONTAIN
ALL THE BOOKS WRITTEN! John 21 v 25
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Excellent, Bernie! ⭐
Thank you so much! 🙂
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More about names in the Bible: I wanted to make a study of “names” but in my Strong’s Concordance covers 2 & 1/2 pages columns 11 X2 & 1/2 inches. Psalms
8 “es. Probably, all at least in the Psalms are about God’s name. So, I gave up.
But I will give some things I remember. In the O T some names were given what
it represents like : “ABRAM” exalted father to ‘ABRAHAM” father of many nations.
“ISAAC” means laughter; “JACOB” is a CROOK.Name changed to “ISRAEL”
A PRINCE.
Isaiah 9 v 6 is well known: His NAME is called “WONDERFUL, COUNSELLOR.
MIGHTY GOD ,EVERLASTING FATHER, PRINCE OF PEACE.”
Isiaiah 43 v ! “I HAVE REDEEMED YOU! I HAVE CALLED YOU BY NAME”…
Well known PHIL 2 V 9-`11; God has given Him a NAME ABOVE EVERY NAME…”
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Oh boy, such a long list your study of names would be! No wonder that you gave up on it.
It does make sense to me that it’s more about God’s different names than about man’s. Even the names God’s servants got mainly referred to the source, the Giver of all good things, as far as I can see it.
What just hit me was this:
“I HAVE REDEEMED YOU! I HAVE CALLED YOU BY NAME”…
Yes! He calls everyone of us personally by our names. That is more than seeing our names written down anywhere in a book. The Living God calls us to come unto Him and to become partakers of His divine nature. That is amazing, isn’t it..? 🙂
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I LOVED YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT PAUL’S LETTERS! I think with this message
I will be through. Jacob’s name was changed Gen, 32 v 28. If I were God, I would
after call him “ISRAEL” When Abram was changed to “Abraham” HE WAS NEVER
CALLED ABRAM. HOWEVER “JACOB'” WAS HIS NAME FOR 2 & 1/2 columns in
Strong’s if I were God, I would do like “ABRAHAM” AFTER THAT GOD’S PEOPLE
WERE CALLED CHILDREN OF ISRAEL: 7 pages in Strong’s. (each page in
Strong’s has 3 columns..
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Hi Bernie — like you I have wondered a lot about Jacob and his name. As with David, because of his sin, it’s hard to figure how God lifts these men up in the Scriptures. But I have learned that God does not lift up these saints. No, He is lifting up (showcasing) His grace and the accomplishing of His own purposes in human history. As for the Patriarchs (Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) their stories are recorded to demonstrate the weakness of man and his need to be deliberately dependent upon God. All three had barren wives — why was that? So that God could teach them to know Him as their only resource. Abraham believed God and left his idolatrous home country – but he did not begin to see fulfillment of the promise of God until he had been put through some experiences in order to learn complete dependence upon God. Isaac is shown to have a sweet nature, but he also shows us the weakness of the flesh (he was a terrible dad!) and his inability to act in faith — to seek God instead of following his own desires. As a result, we have Jacob, the supplanter. He was not only weak, he was willful. Yet when he finally physically wrestles with Jehovah (as he had been spiritually wrestling with Him all along) he is made to admit outloud the nature of his character. “What is your name?” he is asked. He must say “Jacob.” He is made to face up to who he is. And he asks God what His name is, but does not get an answer; instead, he is given a new name, “Israel” — ‘prince with God’. So, he limps off to a different kind of life.
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Men who started out weak in the Lord, but strong in their flesh. They entered into the school of God and spent their entire lives learning to know Him (Jacob did learn God’s name in his old age). So why do we not hear the name of Israel instead of Jacob? I think it has something to do with what each of these men represent to God’s people (rather what they SHOULD represent). Each one has something to say about life with God. Just hearing the name Jacob should cause God’s people to pause and remember what God did in his life — it should be a warning to avoid the wrestling life. Rest is what God wants for His people. Also, Israel became a national name — seems like it was always that way. (Another interesting topic for study in the Bible). Man oh man! A person could spend a lifetime just studying the book of Genesis! You need a spade and a shovel to get down into it’s depths (no — a backhoe!).
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Your biblical knowledge and your interpretation of what you have read there is indeed amazing, dear Lori! Hats off!!
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GOD BLESSED ALL 3 (ABRAHAM, ISAAC & JACOB.) THE FIRST BLESSING THAT MAN DID TO HIS SON IS ISAAC BLESSED JACOB, ONE THING THAT HE WISHED JACOB TO GET THE BLESSING OF ABRAHAM. JACOB BLESSED ALL 12 OF HIS SONS BEFORE HE DIED Gen.49 . I LIKE WHAT HE SAID TO JUDAH: Among other things: THAT HE WOULD BE A LION & “THE SCEPTER SHALL NOT DEPART FROM JUDAH UNTIL SHILOH COMES. (scepter is used by kings Esther 5 v 2) (Shiloh) is a word for Jesus. WE KNOW THAT THESE KINGS BEGAN WITH DAVID & ENDED WITH “JESUS, THE KING OF KINGS.LION: Rev. 5 v 5:…” (of Jesus). THE LION THAT IS FROM THE TRIBE OF JUDAH, THE ROOT OF DAVID, HAS OVERCOME….”
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Great exegesis, Bernie!
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I am just happy that he knows my name and I am glad he knows you alls too–lets rejoice–what ya think? then we will all look as pretty as that girl in the picture!
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What I think? You made me grin once again, Ken. Thanks so much for your humorous contribution on here. 😀
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My comments about the picture also: When I first saw it, I thought it is one of the best about scripture. I’ve seen many of baby Jesus that I was not impressed. Some, even made it on USA ‘s Christmas postage stamps.
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Yes, Bernie, that is my opinion too. I found that the most beautiful paintings, and ecclesiastical art on the whole, can be found in the RCC and in orthodox churches. The protestants are not that famous for these things, are they (keyword iconoclasts, you know 😉 ).
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Reading Lori J’s reply reminded that Jacob’s hunger for more of God was such that he would not let go of the Angel of God until he got the blessing. A Vineyard Fellowship song: a prayer of deeper hunger for God “Lord, You are my daily bread: John 6 v 35 : You are the Word of life living in me” You are the breath I take; Your Spirit of life to me! I AM DESPERATE FOR YOU! I AM LOST WITHOUT YOU!”
Several years ago there was a TRUE REVIVAL in nearby Pensacola, Florida, called The Brownsville Revival. People from around the world came for added blessings from the Lord. Last week, I heard a local man of God say. He went there to get an added blessing. He felt he needed a personal anointing from one of the leaders. He went here and there several time. He finally reached him when the leader had to lower the window of his car as it was leaving. HE WAS ONLY ABLE TO DO SO LIKE JACOB. He got his blessing that he became a leader of a 17 wk revival in Dallas, Texas. Often a minister would use the story of the woman with an issue of blood for 12 yrs. SHE WAS DESPERATE TO GO THRU A CROWD TO GET A TOUCH OF JESUS.S GARMENT.. HER TOUCH TOOK VERTUE FROM JESUS SUCH THAT HE HAD TO FIND HER. SHE GOT HER BLESSING THAT REQIRED DESPIRATION!
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I had the same thought you shared in your first sentence, Bernie. I believe when someone acts like Jacob did with the Angel of God, God cannot help but bless him, for it is written,
“From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force.” (Mt 11:12 ESV)
As far as I know, the Pensacola movement was Pentecostal and Charismatic in its essence. By the way, I have come from such a movement in Germany too. From hence I know how important it is to discern the spirits, something I was not able to do as long as I joined those “circles”. There were several things about these experiences which were good, but more things were bad as I eventually had to realize. If you’re interested, to some extent I wrote about it here https://enteringthepromisedland.wordpress.com/2014/06/30/spotting-sectarian-spirits/.
To be honest, I am desperate to get ANY touch of Jesus too – but only of Him. No human beings needed unless they have been fully conformed into the image of Christ as for example the apostles were.
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Susanne – thank you for making this very important point! I have such a hunger for the Lord like you do. There are so many things that require discernment in our Christian walk; so many things that appeal to the fleshly nature in us — the law on one side and emotional experiences on the other. I remember when “hell fire and brimstone” was the tone of evangelistic preaching. And then things changed to that “God has a wonderful plan for your life” dribble (during the time I got saved in the late ’60’s); even recently there is a group that teaches Christians to use the 10 commandments to guilt people into coming to Christ. Discernment and knowing what the Word of God teaches would save us from these mistakes.
Today I read this: “What God desires for us is to bring us into the enjoyment of all that which He Himself enjoys.” Isn’t that an awesome statement!? Makes me really stop and think. I see that that is what He wanted to do for His people Israel — and that is why He was constantly calling them back to Him when they strayed into idolatry. And that is what Jesus was wanting to do with the people He met when He walked the earth (like the woman at the well!). That is why He went to the cross and sent the Spirit to indwell us. Sounds so simple doesn’t it — just allowing Him to bring us into His own enjoyment? I sure am looking forward to the day when that pesky old sin nature is gone forever!! We are really going to ENJOY eternity with Him — and He plans to enjoy us as well. I can’t even imagine it.
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You’re most welcome, dear Lori! ❤ I see that a lot has happened on my blog since the last time I was online. I am glad to see that Michael wrote such a great comment which you found helpful too (his testimony). I also liked your response on here very much, but I had had no idea what to reply to you before I went to bed last night. As I saw Michael’s and Bernie’s and another of your comments on here, I was happy to see your great exchanges. 🙂
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Susanne, like Bernie, I was involved in these two different moves that took place; the Asbury Revival (from which the Jesus Movement came) and the Toronto Movement (from which came Pensacola (Brownsville) and many other special meetings in specific locations and buildings that people flocked to. I learned much from being involved in these two events.
In the spring of 1970 the kids in the college chapel in Wilmore, Kentucky (Asbury Theological Seminary) had a special visitation from God. These kids spent hours and hours in prayer and they got filled with the Spirit on a Christian campus that did not believe in it! But it did not stay there. They went home on spring break with their fresh infilling and took the gospel to other young people they each new and it spread from there and church buildings could not contain it. As a result the Jesus movement took place in parks and on the streets and in coffee houses in the run down parts of towns. God was saving and filling these young people with the Spirit and they were taking the gospel back out into “the highways and byways” to the Hippy movement they came out of. Thousands were saved out of that “tune in, turn on and drop out” cult-ure they were part of that was centered on drugs, sex and rock and roll. I was part of this move of the Spirit and it was propelled by the Spirit of God… until men rose up and became the new “spiritual gurus” and started building their own followings and denominations out of it. That was “the day the music died.”
As for Toronto, Brownsville, Rodney Howard Brown, Randy Clark, John Arnott, Todd Bentley, etc. I was in on the beginnings of that move too in the early 90’s because I did not want to miss “the next move of God.” The important difference between these two moves was that the people saved in the Jesus movement were not seeking after signs and wonders. THEY ONLY WANTED JESUS! BUT in the Toronto type meetings I went to, people came flocking to special buildings so that they could get a “special touch” from a guru who “had the power” and many got manifestations in their bodies like “spiritual drunkenness,” crawled around on the floor and made animal noises, shook violently, and some women made suggestive movements with their bodies as they danced, etc. It was NOT God! Why? Paul warned us that this would happen before Christ returned…
Yes, before Christ returns, Satan will be turned lose with “all power and signs.” This is NOT a time to be seeking signs and power in the hands of men! Many people that I knew that got these “special touches” in these meetings ended up with all kinds of emotional problems and mental disorders. The difference on what they got was whether they sought Christ only or they sought manifestations and power in their bodies! Jesus called seeking after signs, spiritual adultery (see Matthew 12:38-40). Why? Because we go to mere men to get our signs and these Pharisees did not believe that Jesus was the Christ as they sought a sign form HIM! Clamoring after men and women instead of seeking Christ as the Son of God is adultery in the eyes of God. Paul and the early apostles were quite emphatic that people did NOT do that to them. In Acts we read…
“The gods have come down to us in the likeness of men!” Boy is THAT a pregnant statement as to what is wrong with Christianity today! Paul warned the Corinthians about this very thing…
All things pertaining to God are ours IN Christ, dear saints. Quit looking to men.
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I am happy to see that your great comment above turned into another blog post of yours and that you answered so many questions through your own testimony, Michael! Thank you very much for doing so. I am also acquainted with the Toronto blessing and with the Pensacola movement, and the names of the leaders are mostly familiar to me. As you know, I had got severe mental problems (paranoia, nightmares etc. pp.) after some men had laid their hands on my head. Alas, those strange manifestations you mentioned above, I do know very well, too. 😛
And now here’s the link to Michael’s new blog post about the distortions of the true Gospel https://awildernessvoice.wordpress.com/2015/08/04/what-is-spiritual-adultery/.
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Michael – thank you for your very powerful testimony here. It’s so unnerving hearing about ‘revivals’ and then have to sort them all out. I think you made a very clear distinction. I was saved in 1968 and was influenced by the Jesus movement. I didn’t understand it all back then, but looking back I can see how sweet it was. I wasn’t enamored with hippies at all but the Jesus People were wonderful examples of Christ to me. (I lived very near to San Francisco and Berkeley, CA — the drug culture was terrifying to me, so I was cautious).
I have lived long enough to learn how easy it is for a solid movement of the Spirit to, after not so long a time, morph into man’s great big idea! My heart is broken nowadays by how Christians in our country are sidelined by “Christian politics” and what that has done to weaken and obscure Christ and His gospel. I have my eye on a woman who is trying to get our government to make Iran release her husband (imprisoned for his faith) — she started out well with her eyes fully on Christ, but now only mentions Him at the end of speeches where she grovels to government leaders to use their power (!?) to get him released. I know how hard It is to persevere, but we must keep His ways in mind.
This morning the Lord gave me a much needed reminder that our faith is not by sight — but by faith. Yesterday I was actually saying to the Lord “What’s the point?” since I have been praying for unsaved family, and other people in various circumstances for so long. This morning He gave me a good dose of reassurance (and a bit of chastisement) from His Word.
You have also reminded me that “All things pertaining to God are ours IN Christ..” Good reminder for me as well.
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Thank you, Lori! I have a good friend, Greg Beumer, who came to Spokane from the Bay area in 1970 and joined up with the group of Jesus People we were part of at that time. (This is a short write up about him- https://www.uniongospelmission.org/chapel-provider-greg-beumer/ ). We just saw him and his wife, Debbie, last Sunday when about 10 of us old Jesus People got together at their house. He was one of the original “Jesus Freaks,” as the Hippies called them. You two probably know many of the same people from back then. Greg was influenced by Kent Philpott down there back then.( http://www.amazon.com/Memoirs-Jesus-Freak-Allan-Philpott/dp/0989804119 ) Philpott wrote about Greg in this book
Yes, it is sad to see how many Christians are getting sucked into political activism and do not know what kingdom they are really of and the gospel and witness of Christ suffers as a result. Thank you for your encouraging response to my comment. After writing it (poor Susanne having to put up with my article length postings on here!), I touched it up and made a blog article out of it on my blog as well.
“May we continue to grow IN Christ and no longer be of this world system and all the seductive ways that Satan draws us away into His realm. Amen.”
God bless you, dear sister.
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Susanne, I don’t know whether I feel more sad or mad about what they did to you with those evil spirits that these false shepherds operated in while you were in that Christian cult. The nine years of hell you went through after that is enough to make my blood boil.
I had already experience two Christian cults before I got involved in that Toronto mess and it was easier for me to see where it was going as a result and get out of it. I got some wonderful advise from an old saint before I went to my first Toronto type meeting. He said, “Seek God’s face, not His hands.” It was then that I heard God say, “If you seek my face, my hands will not be far away.” Soooo, I went to those meetings always seeking His face and not signs and wonders, thus I avoided falling into spiritual adultery and the evils of all those false manifestations that were not of His Spirit. I am so glad to see how you have been healed and are once again walking in the freedom we have in Christ and can hear His Spirit so well.
Thanks for the link to my blog. ❤
Michael
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You’re welcome as to the link to AWV, Michael. 🙂
Well, in contrast to you, I had no experiences but the RCC before. I was a real greenhorn as to “spirituality” on the whole, no idea what that was at all. I was 29 and I trusted that those who take God’s name into their mouths cannot have bad intentions. In a certain sense, they had no bad intentions; they were only blind to what they did because they were intrigued by THE POWER of the HOLY SPIRIT. That is a great danger, isn’t it?
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Yes, Susanne, seeking power is an open door for the devil to come in. Paul knew this and thus he said,
“And to keep me from being too elated by the abundance of revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan, to harass me, to keep me from being too elated. Three times I besought the Lord about this, that it should leave me; but he said to me, ‘My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.’ I will all the more gladly boast of my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.” (2 Corinthians 12:7-9 RSVA)
Our flesh cannot handle His power without coming under the influence of Satan. This is why we need the cross to deal with it. Only Christ can do the works of Christ in us. But our Father desires Him to do so, so that HE might have many sons unto HIS glory. Amen!
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Amen, Michael. Thank you for your wise words! ❤
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I also, attended a revival with Southern Baptists. Then, there was a revival called Asbury. I think. is Methodist.THIS REVIVAL HAD SUCH AN IMPACT THAT THOSE THAT WERE A PART WENT ALL OVER THE SOUTH TO SPREAD THE GOOD NEWS.
It is interesting that you covered Matt. 11 v12. I studied what “violence” means. I concluded it means to be zealous or fervent: both are in the Bible.MY STUDY WAS YESTERDAY THE 3RD! “Zeal & fervent means “iINTENSE ENTHUSIASM” Just now:ireading the comments in my Bible: “THE VIOLENT: are people of KEEN ENTHUSIASM and commitment who are willing to respond to and propagate with RADICAL ABANDONMENT the message and DYNAMIC OF GOD’S REIGN! reference: Luke 16 v 16: After John the Baptist: the KINGDOM HAS BEEN PREACHED AND EVERY ONE IS PRESSED INTO IT. Comment on this: EMTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD BY “VIOLENT” MEANS DETERMINATION (BE AGGRESSIVE) ABOUT SERVING CHRIST”
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Dear Bernie,
Thank you very much for your elucidating comments, esp. regarding violence. That was truly helpful! 🙂
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OUT OF THE JESUS MOVEMENT HAS BEEN LASTING TRUE MINISTRY IN THE
KINGDOM OF GOD IN THE CHAPEL CHURCH WHICH HAS SPREAD TO OTHER
PLACES (CHUCK SMITH WHO DISCIPLED MANY INCLUDING
CHUCK GERARD, KEITH GREEN AND THE VINEYARD MOVEMENT UNDER
JOHN WIMBER. I WAS IN THIS MOVE HERE UNTIL MY PASTOR LEFT TO
GO ELSEWHERE I STILL HAVE 20 OR MORE OF THEIR WORSHIP CASSETTE
TAPES > MANY OF THESE SONGS COME TO ME, LIKE TODAY” YOU HAVE BROKEN CHAINS AROUND ME SETTING MY SPIRIT FREE. I WORSHIP YOU,I GIVE MY LIFETO YOU! I FALL DOWN ON MY KNEES! I WORSHIP YOU! ANOTHER: “IT’S YOUR BLOOD THAT CLEANSES ME! IT’S YOUR BLOOD THAT GIVES ME LIFE.
IT’S YOUR BLOOD THAT TOOK MY PLACE IN REDEEMING SACRIFICE WASHES ME WHITER THAN THE SNOW. MY JESUS, GOD’ PRECIOUS SACRIFICE!”
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Movements come and go, but denominations last FOREVER! And they do perfectly fine without the Holy Spirit, which is amazing to me!
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Oh boy, Michael!! 😛
Tsk tsk tsk… 😉
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As a point of clarification, many of the denominations carry on without the Spirit’s guidance. Once men build a well oiled machine, and policy is dictated by the home office, it can go on for years without them noticing that God has gone a different direction and they have gone on without Him. Today, Europe is filled with empty cathedrals with almost nobody attending church in them and the churches are supported by the individual countries taxing the people to keep their doors open. America is heading the same direction, for there is a mass exodus of people leaving institutional churches and seeking something more small, responsive and intimate with fellow believers. George Barna documents this trend in his book, “Revolution.”
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Thanks for the clarification, Michael. Although I know what and how you believe, I think your additional comment was helpful to see where you are coming from. It is so easy to misunderstand and to be misunderstood, isn’t it? 🙄
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I reread those testimonies about the Jesus Movement. When I was blessed, I got music tapes that I still play to keep the Holy Spirit’s flame burning. I also, bought 100’s of cassette tapes of Basic Bible teaching. One series is TRUTH AND ERROR. RECENTLY, I PLAYED ABOUT 50 OF THEM TO COMPARE THEIR TEACHINGS WITH THE FRESH REVELATION I AM NOW EXPERIENCING. SO, THEY WERE A HELP. In conclusion, I thank God that I am keeping alive the blessings of the Jesus Movement.
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Pheeew, Bernie!! You recently listened to about 50 (!!!) cassettes in order to compare what was taught back then with what God has been teaching you lately? Your brain’s capacity is truly impressive! ⭐
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Since I am retired, I have time to listen.
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Okay, but it IS a lot, still. 😉
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I’m finally getting caught up. In a scenario such as the woman at the well, the woman could have easily been anxious or even a bit frightened. However, even though Jesus was a stranger to her, there was apparently something very comforting about his presence.
Stephen Covey pointed out that, “People don’t care how much we know until they know how much we care.” The story seems to indicate that the woman instinctively knew that Jesus cared about her. That sense of care elevated her comfort level and opened her spirit to whatever Jesus had to say.
Today, we are taught to share our faith with others. There are all manner of seminars and gimmicks to facilitate sharing. However, many people will not be open to our message unless and until they first see Jesus in us. When people see something in us that is 1) different and 2) desirable, then they will be open to hear the gospel message that we have to share. They will become envious of what it is that we have that is desirably different and will be eager to find out how they can get it too. What do you think?
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I have also always liked the quote by Stephen Covey you posted above, Lloyd, since it is true!
Actually, that is something that bothers me too, seeing so many trying hard to share the gospel without having been called to do so. It can get even strenuous for them, feeling an “urge” to obey the Great Commission (Mt 28), for example, no matter what.
YES! It is indeed necessary that they really see something in us that attracts them like tiny iron filings to an electromagnet, which is Christ in us, the hope of glory.
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Yes, without being one in the love of God how can we share the gospel? Words are so cheap in this internet/computer age! Jesus laid down a prerequisite for the effective spreading of the gospel…
“And the glory which you gave me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and you in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that you have sent me, and have loved them, as you have loved me.” (John 17:22-23 KJ2000)
Being made perfect in ONE with each other and the Father and the Son. This only happens when we love one another as HE loves us. Then the world looks on and says, “Behold how they love one another” and want what we have… Thanks Lloyd and Susanne! ❤ ❤
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You’re very welcome, Michael. 🙂
Great scriptural reference and explanation!
Love,
Susanne
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It’s important to follow the Great Commission. If Christ is visible in an through us, sharing our faith is as natural as eating breakfast. If not, awkwardly reading a tract to someone isn’t likely to be fruitful.
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So true, Lloyd. I like “…awkwardly reading a tract to someone isn’t likely to be fruitful”. Great picture! 😀
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The main reason so many people find it difficult to share their faith is that they are not living it in the first place. Preachers and teachers who routinely push people to share their faith seem to overlook this one very important point.
The American culture is rapidly going down the rabbit hole, primarily because Judeo-Christian believers are not living anywhere close to the life the Lord intended. As such, witnessing becomes a gut wrenching discipline, rather than the joy it should be. It is not possible to share a joy that is not possessed. What do you think?
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Amen. You’re right, Lloyd.
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Good discussion! I love the accounts where Jesus talks to men and women who have been prepared to hear the gospel. He approached each one in such a different way. He spoke exactly to the need of their situation and their heart. I have asked myself many times, where in the world all those ‘systems’ of evangelism came from? As a new believer I saw the disconnect, but had no idea what to do about it. One has to deal with that kind of confusion at some point – early on I was totally burned about sharing my faith with anyone. For one thing our church sent people out to ‘witness’ without regard to whether or not they even understood their own ‘faith.’
I really love the story of the woman at the well. These kinds of Biblical accounts show us God’s heart for people. I think maybe the first thing a person needs to acquire is God’s heart for lost people. That takes some time – the Holy Spirit must bring it, and a person needs to learn who the Spirit is and what His role is in the life of a believer before that can happen. Right – did someone come along side you to make sure you knew that before they shoved you out the door to witness? Probably not.
Our Jesus was so amazing in His approach to this poor, misled woman. He exposes (to her alone, not to the neighbors OR the disciples) her sinful lifestyle; He took steps to lead her away from her earthly cares, and confronts her earthly religion. She got clarity about her true need! He won’t allow her to stay on her path of wrong thinking and excusing herself, but He wraps everything He says in grace so that she doesn’t bristle at what He says. She figures out who He is and believes that He has something she needs — and He encourages her to take it. And then He teaches her about true worship!! What a Savior! What a heart!
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Great exposition on the woman at the well, my sister! ⭐
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How funny is that, Lloyd!? I posted my rant and then saw your post. I guess there are lots of us out there who share the same experiences!
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😉
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“Witnessing” as it is called in the churches… are we sure that Jesus did it this way? We tell everyone that Jesus is our PERSONAL Savior and then we set out to portray Him as a “one size fits all” Savior that is about as personal as a pair of flip-flops! We polish a “canned wrap” and memorize our “four spiritual laws” and use our methodology whether we call it “Evangelism Explosion” or whatever on everyone that comes along and call it “witnessing.”
But is this what Jesus did? Is it what the apostles did? I don’t think so. Jesus only used “John 3:15-17” on ONE MAN! He only used what He said to the woman at the well once. He only to told one tax collector that He would come home with him and eat and the man was saved as a result! He only healed one man that was born blind from birth and he ended up believing in Him.
What I am saying is that if we are to be effective we need to only do what our Father is doing and only say what we hear HIM saying just as Jesus did with each person. And THAT takes the death of all our preconceived ideas of who that person is and what they need! We need to let Jesus be PERSONAL with each person through us as HE sees fit. BUT that takes a personal relationship with HIM, one in which we can hear and obey His voice instead of memorizing a script and assaulting people with it in an impersonal way. If we can not impart the life and love of Christ for each person in a personal way, we have nothing to say and to do that we must be One with the Father and the Son!
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Amen Michael! So much damage has been done to the church at large and to individuals in particular (saved and unsaved) because of human ideas and systems throughout the history of Christianity (christendom). It’s hard to know why God has allowed it, but allowed it He has. We’re coming to its end — not soon enough!
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Great comments, Michael. Jesus was the very manifestation of love. As such, his physical presence was both comforting and disarming. From that position of spiritual strength, he met each individual at his/her point of need. Meeting that need initiated the formation of a bond that became the conduit for His gospel message. The individual was both open and receptive to whatever Jesus had to say.
In contrast, the Pharisees and Sadducees saw Jesus as a controversial figure. They were not open to His message, were alarmed by what they considered as unholy competition, and wanted Jesus and His message terminated. What do you think?
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