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darkness, eternal fire, heaven, hell, John Calvin, light, Peter Ustinov, unbelief
“I imagine hell like this: Italian punctuality, German humour and English wine.”
― Peter Ustinov
A funny quote, indeed, yet what pictures do really come up in our minds when we hear someone talking about “hell”? I need to admit that I don’t know much about that fiery pit, not more than the Bible teaches. During the past centuries the Roman Catholic part of my family, my ancestors, had been threatened by the church that they would go to hell if they had committed severe sins that were not confessed before a priest. Note, Roman Catholic belief was that only members of their church could get to heaven back then since non-Catholics would be considered as heretics who would have no access to God – ever. Thank God, times have changed…
However, I just found an excerpt by John Calvin which I believe is VERY challenging. I won’t tell you before what I think about it. Instead, I am eager to know your thoughts which you could share with me right away in the comments section below.
12. Moreover, as language cannot describe the severity of the divine vengeance on the reprobate, their pains and torments are figured to us by corporeal things, such as darkness, wailing and gnashing of teeth, inextinguishable fire, the ever-gnawing worm (Mt. 8:12; 22:13; Mark 9:43; Isa. 66:24). It is certain that by such modes of expression the Holy Spirit designed to impress all our senses with dread, as when it is said, “Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared: he has made it deep and large; the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the Lord, like a stream of brimstone, does kindle it,” (Isa. 30:33). As we thus require to be assisted to conceive the miserable doom of the reprobate, so the consideration on which we ought chiefly to dwell is the fearful consequence of being estranged from all fellowship with God, and not only so, but of feeling that his majesty is adverse to us, while we cannot possibly escape from it.
For, first, his indignation is like a raging fire, by whose touch all things are devoured and annihilated. Next, all the creatures are the instruments of his judgment, so that those to whom the Lord will thus publicly manifest his anger will feel that heaven, and earth, and sea, all beings, animate and inanimate, are, as it were, inflamed with dire indignation against them, and armed for their destruction. Wherefore, the Apostle made no trivial declaration, when he said that unbelievers shall be “punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power,” (2 Thess. 1:9). And whenever the prophets strike terror by means of corporeal figures, although in respect of our dull understanding there is no extravagance in their language, yet they give preludes of the future judgment in the sun and the moon, and the whole fabric of the world.
Hence unhappy consciences find no rest, but are vexed and driven about by a dire whirlwind, feeling as if torn by an angry God, pierced through with deadly darts, terrified by his thunderbolts and crushed by the weight of his hand; so that it were easier to plunge into abysses and whirlpools than endure these terrors for a moment. How fearful, then, must it be to be thus beset throughout eternity! On
this subject there is a memorable passage in the ninetieth Psalm: Although God by a mere look scatters all mortals, and brings them to naught, yet as his worshippers are more timid in this world, he urges them the more, that he may stimulate then, while burdened with the cross to press onward until he himself shall be all in all.
END OF BOOK THREE.
(John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion (1559), Book 3, Chapter 25, Section 12.)
Read more here http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/institutes.v.xxvi.html
Michael said:
“Hence unhappy consciences find no rest, but are vexed and driven about by a dire whirlwind, feeling as if torn by an angry God, pierced through with deadly darts, terrified by his thunderbolts and crushed by the weight of his hand; so that it were easier to plunge into abysses and whirlpools than endure these terrors for a moment.”
I think that Calvin wrote this diatribe totally without any anointing, to be honest with you. It sound like something written by a ancient Greek philosopher.. Thor throwing lightning bolts at the poor creatures on the earth, etc… not by the God of all mercy who sent His Son to save us from our sins.
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Susanne Schuberth (Germany) said:
Yes, Michael, it could have been the influence of an ancient Greek philosopher or of Dante Alighieri’s “Inferno”… who knows. 🙄
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Ken Dawson said:
Well regardless of the surety of there really being a hell or not-from Calvins description it sure does not sound like a place to want to hang out in for eternity.
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Susanne Schuberth (Germany) said:
That was very well, said, Ken. …. So true! 😉
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Becky Johnson said:
You wrote: ” I think that many of our people descriptions of hell and our fiery horror stories of potential condemnation are more motivated by human will than by God’s will. Generally we are trying to manipulate human behavior and control people, rather then truly inform them about the truth. “
I have been wrestling with all that I have e “thought” about hell. Meaning, everything I have heard and/or taken in without much of my own personal thought or lately, prayer on it. Then a circumstance closed in that has given me no place for easy explanation. (Too long to get into, and too private as well), but the God I am coming to know, the God who has been faithfully revealing Himself to me, doesn’t add up to the words I’ve heard from humans. Anyway, what you wrote there means a lot to me at this present spot in my journey. Thank you!
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Anna Waldherr said:
This reminded me of the fiery sermon by Puritan minister, Jonathan Edwards, “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God.” At the time the sermon was given, worshipers were so terrified they collapsed in the aisles. The sermon is now studied as literature in schools, and ridiculed for its “exaggerated” language and images.
These days, if we concede the existence of a god at all, we prefer to view him as an understanding and forgiving sort of guy — someone either too distant to be concerned about our few foibles or willing to give us the benefit of the doubt. Former Evangelical preacher Rob Bell (“Love Wins”) teaches the heresy that hell is inconsistent with a loving God. Even televangelists like Joyce Meyer, who acknowledge the existence of hell, can mangle the concept. See, https://carm.org/joyce-meyer.
But Edwards was right. God — the One and only God Almighty — cannot tolerate sin. If He could, Salvation would not have been necessary. “For a fire is kindled in My anger, and shall burn to the lowest hell…” (Deut. 32: 22). “The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God” (Ps. 9: 17). “Hell and destruction are before the Lord; so how much more the hearts of the sons of men” (Prov. 15: 11). “Hell from beneath is excited about you, to meet you at your coming; it stirs up the dead for you…” (Is. 14: 9). “And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell” (Matt. 10: 28).
It is sin, not hell, that is inconsistent with God’s nature. Recognition of that fact drives home all the more the great love God required for Salvation.
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Susanne Schuberth (Germany) said:
Yes, you are absolutely right, Anna, salvation without the possiblity to go to hell would make no sense at all. If, like Bell and other liberals say, hell did not exist and universalism were true, what the hell would the incarnation of God in Christ, His death, resurrection, and ascension mean? Not that much, I am afraid, since who needed to be saved then and from WHAT? This liberal branch of Christianity springs from mere human wisdom, from men and women who cannot imagine our God as HE really is. In these cases only a revelation of the Living God where His love and the fear of Him can be felt simultaneously would be of great help, I believe.
I know that God does not tolerate sin. As great as His love is, somehow I understand Him. When someone offends us, i.e. sins against us, do we like it? Can we say, “Oh, that was very good, go on with it!” No, we can’t do that. Basically, in our hearts we all know what is right and what is wrong for it was God who created them with that knowledge no human being will ever be able to deny, as we can read here for instance,
“He has made everything beautiful in its time. Also, he has put eternity into man’s heart, yet so that he cannot find out what God has done from the beginning to the end.” (Eccl 3:11 ESV)
“For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.” (Rom 2:14-16 ESV)
Also, Anna, I do agree that the Old Testament offers a lot of Scriptures regarding hell and the eternal consequences for the unrepentant sinner. Not really fun to read them, but necessary to know about, I believe.
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Susanne Schuberth (Germany) said:
Lloyd, you said,
“Knowingly or unknowingly, they tend to draw people away from the Lord, rather than closer to Him.”
Alas, yes. 😦 But isn’t it is the same with the other extreme, with those who constantly preach “the Law” and frighten people to ever draw near to a God who seems to love punishing them for every failure? Biblical balance is needed in both cases, I believe.
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Fred Thoren said:
“Alas, yes. 😦 But isn’t it is the same with the other extreme, with those who constantly preach “the Law” and frighten people to ever draw near to a God who seems to love punishing them for every failure? “
I have met many of them and you know by my other comments on other blog entries that those people do not help me but cause great harm for me.
I have gotten so confused on so many things. I am not even sure if Salvation can be lost. Some think it can while others think it can not.
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Susanne Schuberth (Germany) said:
I think endless theological discussions and controversy are not really helpful, Fred, since they can keep us confused and busy in our own minds. However, God wants to give us His rest, instead. Seeking God is something that does not necessarily happen while reading what others believe about Him although God might give us some insights time and again.
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Michael said:
In other words, Fred, salvation is not a head thing, but is a matter of the heart. Jesus is coming back for a bride that in madly in love with Him… end of story!
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Fred Thoren said:
I like the way you said that, Michael. It made me smile.
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Susanne Schuberth (Germany) said:
Yes, Lloyd. Basically it is so simple: someone who loves with the love of God because of having been perfected by Christ’s Spirit in them will automatically fulfill the law, here the Ten Commandments. But we need God both to write His law on our hearts and to give us the power through His Holy Spirit so that we can truly obey Him.
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Fred Thoren said:
Very well said. 🙂
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