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carnal mind, deception, experience, God's love, mysticism, Oswald Chambers, salvation, spiritual mind, spiritual power
“Can our eyes deceive us?”
(Photo by Susanne Schuberth)
I recalled having read a certain quote by Oswald Chambers quite some time ago. However, whenever I tried to find it again, I failed, since I could not remember the exact wording. Just today as I was searching the net for mystical experiences by Christians, I would find some criticism about the very word “mysticism” by T.A. Sparks and A.W. Tozer instead. Of course, there has been false mysticism in Christianity, too, but not all mystical experiences were wrong. As long as one gets closer and closer to the Living God, I would never dare to say that mysticism was a bad thing. The false mystical experience might get obvious to us when we realize that it has caused the believer to get more and more focused on his own person and “ministry” than on the person of Jesus Christ and our Heavenly Father. Pride about knowing more than others, arrogance toward not-so-spiritual believers, and sometimes even a sort of megalomania (about what God would be able to do through the little “ME”) go hand in hand with Satan’s spiritual suggestions.
Later I also found another writing on the internet by a man who tried to prove Oswald Chambers and Watchman Nee wrong. Reading his deliberations, it got more and more clear to me that the carnal mind can never understand what the spiritual mind already knows due to its experiences with God and Jesus. The skilled theologian might find countless Scriptures to support his theories and thoughts about Christian mystics being deceived, however, what he does not know, it seems, is that our reason and logic cannot but understand the very surface of what was written in the Bible. The very depth of Scripture, albeit, reveals itself only through the Holy Spirit that indwells the believer and continually teaches him subliminally what is true and what is not true, even according to the Scriptures. The apostle Paul told us,
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ. (1 Cor 2:14-16 ESV)
And the apostle John wrote,
“I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you. But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him.” (1 Jn 2:26-27 ESV)
Reading this Scripture, it dawned on me that we can only be deceived if we have not received the anointing of the Holy Spirit yet or, when we have received it, we stop abiding in Him and His love. There is a common “deception” I would like to point out here, which has to do with the Chambers’ quote I had been looking for. Although it is not a real deception, it is rather a saddening sort of confusion that has grieved so many believers because they were taught wrongly about salvation. Eventually, here is not only the Oswald Chambers’ quote (which I highlighted in bold letters), but his whole devotional.
The Staggering Question
June 1, 2015
He said to me, “Son of man, can these bones live?” —Ezekiel 37:3
Can a sinner be turned into a saint? Can a twisted life be made right? There is only one appropriate answer— “O Lord God, You know” (Ezekiel 37:3). Never forge ahead with your religious common sense and say, “Oh, yes, with just a little more Bible reading, devotional time, and prayer, I see how it can be done.”
It is much easier to do something than to trust in God; we see the activity and mistake panic for inspiration. That is why we see so few fellow workers with God, yet so many people working for God. We would much rather work for God than believe in Him. Do I really believe that God will do in me what I cannot do? The degree of hopelessness I have for others comes from never realizing that God has done anything for me. Is my own personal experience such a wonderful realization of God’s power and might that I can never have a sense of hopelessness for anyone else I see? Has any spiritual work been accomplished in me at all? The degree of panic activity in my life is equal to the degree of my lack of personal spiritual experience.
“Behold, O My people, I will open your graves…” (Ezekiel 37:12). When God wants to show you what human nature is like separated from Himself, He shows it to you in yourself. If the Spirit of God has ever given you a vision of what you are apart from the grace of God (and He will only do this when His Spirit is at work in you), then you know that in reality there is no criminal half as bad as you yourself could be without His grace. My “grave” has been opened by God and “I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells” (Romans 7:18). God’s Spirit continually reveals to His children what human nature is like apart from His grace.
http://utmost.org/the-staggering-question/
In closing, I dare to raise two additional, maybe challenging questions.
Do we believe that others will be saved because of our witness or because Christ is Savior? Can we trust Him and His unconditional love so much that we are convinced He loves our neighbors/loved ones/co-workers just as much as He loves us?
So is the deception you are speaking of being deceived into thinking we have to “help God” or “work for God,” instead of trusting Him to work in others as he has worked in us?
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Good question, Ryan. Although that was not what I had thought of initially, it also makes sense to me. What I rather had in mind here was that not only a few believers feel a burden, esp. because of their “unsaved” relatives and friends who might still be atheists, to somehow convince them so that they will be saved before death. In these cases it is not so much that they feel the Holy Spirit’s joy to share the gospel because those non-Christians asked them before about the hope that was in them, instead, they believe they MUST do or say something, since if not, it was their failure in case those people could not be saved. I hope that clarifies my concerns a bit.
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It is so obvious after reading this that our faith in God’s ability to do a work in others and even make their blind eyes see is only limited by our seeing what HE has done for us and how desperately dead and blind we are without the work of God’s grace in us. He has to open our graves not only to let us raise from the dead, but also to let us see who we are without Him and HIS life in us!
One of the biggest deceptions of all is the power of the human intellect. Jesus was confronted with the intellectual Jewish leaders as they constantly challenged His authority to do what He saw His Father doing. He did not knuckle under to their authority and intellectual understanding of the scriptures for one moment! It is no different for those who walk by the Spirit and not by the mind games of church leaders today. Anyone who listens to the voice of the Spirit and obeys Him and does not join in and play THEIR “reindeer games” will soon be called a mystic or something worse. The whole game they play is really about control. Will we worry about what others might say and about our reputations or will we obey God? Jesus made Himself of NO reputation when He found Himself in the form of a man, “THERE, that is out of the way! Now to be about my Father’s business!”
So many Christians want to play God and take His place as judge and overlord of Christ’s precious followers. To these Paul wrote,
“What right do you have to criticize someone else’s servants? Only their Lord can decide if they are doing right, and the Lord will make sure that they do right.” (Romans 14:4 CEV)
Father, don’t let us fall into that trap of thinking that we know it all. As Paul said, “if any man thinks he knows anything, let him know this: he knows nothing as he ought to know.”
Keep following the voice of the Spirit, dear Susanne, and thank you for digging in and finding this quote from Chambers and sharing it. God bless you very much! ❤
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Oh yes, Michael, human intellect that does not submit to the Spirit of God can render us being deceived sooo easily.
It is interesting to see that I thought about not judging the spiritual condition-to-be of the “now-non-believer” and you, my brother, perfectly succeeded in leading over to not judging the believer, either. That was a very good complementary idea by you! 🙂
I am so glad you added the second Scripture which clarifies that we primarily need to be known (read loved) by God.
“If anyone imagines that he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know. But if anyone loves God, he is known by God.” (1 Cor 8:2-3 ESV)
I try to keep following Him whenever He nudges me, Michael. You are very welcome as to finding this quote which I did not search for today. Indeed, I found it accidentally and was wondering what to do with it. Then I started writing the blog post and it made no sense to me at all, no idea how to include the quote – ever. Yes, that is the Holy Spirit’s guidance. He does not need our plans, logic, or wisdom. Thank God, He does NOT need it! 🙂
Every blessing and His great love to you! ❤
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right Michael and the rest of rom.4:14 also. To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
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Amen, Wayne.
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michael sorry – same scripture different translation 🙂
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Exactly! His arm is not short to save. I praise His name for that too!
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IN 1st John vs 26-27: the above 2 verses talks about “ABIDING IN THE SON AND
FATHER. You say that when one does not abide…So, you are covering this truth in
your message..
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Oh, that was great, Bernie! Thank you very much for your confirming words. 🙂
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This is what you said: “READING THIS SCRIPTURE IT DAWNED ON ME THAT WE
CAN ONLY BE DECEIVED IF WE HAVE NOT RECEIVED THE ANOINTING OF
THE HOLY SPIRIT. YET, OR WHEN WE RECEIVED IT ( WE STOP ABIDING IN HIM)
AND HIS LOVE
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Yes, that was it, Bernie.
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Susanne- timely article i’v been asking the Lord about some of the mystics and where they got there information , revelation, i agree with some of there doctrines but like some of the popular teachers of today they got them ,revelations, from angels , that they spoke with, rather than the Holy Spirit. seems to be a season of questioning and measuring EVERTHING by Christ regardless of my beliefs. i have to be open to change. recently as i was talking with the Lord about releasing things i have beleived for yrs. i asked Him about the devil coming at this time of openess and deceving me as to what is light and what is darkness, as he has done for yrs , He spoke loud and clear this scripture. Matt. 7:9-11. 9″Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone? 10″Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a SNAKE, will he? 11″If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!… so as i seek for clarity i can trust Him to continue to lead me in the right path as He is doing at this present time away from darkness into the light of His Son
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Wayne, I was happy to hear that God gave you such a clear response when you had asked Him about light and darkness. 🙂
I know it is anything but easy to let go of things I have believed for a long time. To be honest, I am always skeptical about any revelation, whether mine or revelations from others until I feel a strong confirmation and His peace in my heart.
The answer God gave you could not have been better, I believe. It is so true that He only gives us good things and I even think that He longs to be asked by us. He wants to have fellowship with His children and show His grace through helping them in every given situation. But oh, how long I always need until I really trust HIM and not my own thoughts and worries about what might happen in the future!!! 😛
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Susanne and Wayne, your exchange on this subject of hearing from God and following His voice in all things is so good. While reading it I was reminded of a scripture that seems to fit.
“Trust in the LORD with all your heart; and lean not unto your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct your paths.” (Proverbs 3:5-6 KJ2000)
Inviting our Father into EVERY situation and calling on His Spirit to lead and teach us would be considered “mystical” by many Christians, but God calls it our starting point when it comes to dwelling in HIS kingdom. 🙂
Bless you both. ⭐
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Hey, that is one of my favorite Scriptures as well, Michael.
Acknowledging him in all our ways and inviting Him into every given situation seems to be the same thing. We both know that it works and I wonder why we sometimes need so long until we have realized that He has only been waiting for us to ask Him to make straight our paths.
Bless you, my mystic brother. 🙂
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Yes, Susanne, inviting God into every situation whether it be painful or joyful and filled with pleasure, I think is what God is waiting for us to do. As Paul put it, “In HIM we live and move and have our being.” I am always leaning new areas that I have yet to do this in.
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Me too, Michael, COUNTLESS areas in my life, to be honest. It seems He wants to share EVERYTHING with us. Even the smallest and unimportant issues of which we usually do not think that He might be interested in them.
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Yes, Susanne! He truly wants each of us to have our common “BEING” as members of Christ’s body and members one of another IN the Father and the Son and wants to be an integral part of all that we ARE. ⭐
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The word mysticism means spiritual. That is why carnal Christians don’t like to talk about mysticism because they are not spiritual. Carnal Christians probably would not like reading Oswald Chambers or Watchman Nee.
Just thought I would let you know that I was hitchhiking east on Interstate 90 outside of Missoula, Montana yesterday and these three guys from Germany picked me up. We had a great talk. They just came from Calgary, Alberta, Canada and were going to travel around the United States for a month. They made me think of you. I spoke some German to them: “Meine Familie kommen von Hannover im 1870.” They dropped me off near Big Sky, Montana.
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Oh boy!!! 😳 Tim, I just found your comment in my WordPress spam folder before deleting it quasi automatically. I have no idea how it got there, but thank God, He warned me before. 🙂
Yes, I too think that mystical and spiritual mean the same thing. There is a lot of hair-splitting as to doctrinal things between those Christians who still trust in their own understanding more than in anything (ANYONE, read GOD) else.
What? “Deine Familie kommt aus Hannover?” (Your family/ancestors came from Hannover?) XD I am happy to hear that, my brother. I hope those three German guys were nice ambassadors of my country. 😉
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Tim, I was disappointed to read that you came so close to us and we never met. We live about five minutes from I-90 in Coeur d Alene, ID. Susanne, this is funny, but I was able read both of what you two wrote in German and understand it! I guess you are rubbing off on me. 🙂
Susanne, you wrote to Tim, “There is a lot of hair-splitting as to doctrinal things between those Christians who still trust in their own understanding more than in anything (ANYONE, read GOD) else.” This is funny for I wrote almost the same thing, even with a verse of scripture in my comment to Wayne above before I read your reply to Tim. What a wonderful experience to be of one mind together with His saints or as Paul put it,
“So if there is any encouragement in Christ, any incentive of love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy, complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind.” (Philippians 2:1-2 RSVA)
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Es freut mich, dass du auch Deutsch verstehst, Michael! 🙂 [I am glad that you understand German as well, Michael!]
Being of one mind can really be funny at times, my brother, that is true! XD
That Scripture fits! ⭐
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They were very friendly. I think two of them just graduated from college; they spoke very good English, but I don’t speak very good German. Ich studierte Deutsch fur drei jahre: zwei jahren im gymnasium und eine jahre im universitat (Iowa State University)”. We stopped in Deer Lodge, Montana where they bought some bear spray. They drove me from Missoula to Belgrade to Big Sky, Montana. I found them a good place to camp for the night, then I hitchhiked to West Yellowstone, Montana. They were planning on visiting Yellowstone National Park and then Zion National Park in southern Utah.
My ancestors came from Hannover, Germany and Ireland (County Kerry and County Roscommon).
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Pheeew!! Thank God, you met friendly Germans, my brother. 🙂 Dein Deutsch ist übrigens prima, Tim! ⭐
[By the way, your German is topnotch! ⭐ ]
Nothing but European ancestors, it seems. Have you ever been in Europe, Tim?
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Yes. I lived in Ireland for a total of thirteen months back in 1980, 1981 and 1982 (three different trips: I paid for one trip and my dad paid for two trips). I hitchhiked around Ireland, Northern Ireland, England and Wales, but I have never been to continental Europe.
https://hitchhikeamerica.wordpress.com/2014/09/22/hitchhiking-in-ireland-northern-ireland-england-and-wales/
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Aha! Thank you very much for this explanation, Tim.
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Ich verstehe ein wenig Deutsch, Susanne! 🙂
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Das was SEHR GUT, Michael! ⭐
[That was VERY GOOD, Michael!]
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Danke 🐻
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Gerne. 🐱
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Michael: I didn’t hitchhike through Coeur d Alene this time through. I came up from Salmon, Idaho on U.S. 93 to Missoula and then headed east from there. Years ago (1986-1987) I hitchhiked through Coeur d Alene many times; I even slept under this tree near I-90. I once hitchhiked from Coeur d Alene and Moscow, Idaho—very beautiful country. I used to live in Ellensburg, Washington in ’86 and ’87 and I would hitchhike between Ellensburg and Iowa quite a bit. I usually hitchhike between Missoula and Kooskia, Idaho on U.S. 12 or Missoula and Salmon, Idaho. I may have hitchhiked through Coeur d Alene once in the past ten years.
Speaking of Idaho, here is a great testimony of the Lord protecting someone in a wildfire in California:
https://hitchhikeamerica.wordpress.com/2015/09/14/california-wildfires-and-gods-protection/
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Thanks, Tim, for getting back to me, my brother. Yes, highway 12 and 93 are way more scenic that I-90. But keep me in mind if you ever come near CdA again. I would even be willing to drive over to Missoula and meet with you for lunch or something. I just did that about a week ago where I met a a dear brother from Glasgow who came over that far. I will check out your link a bit later about the wild fire. I imagine you have seen plenty of smoke on your way through Idaho and Montana.
God bless and keep you safe, Tim.
Holy hugs!
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About DECEPTION: First know that there is “GOOD” without God: Eve ate of
the tree of knowledge of GOOD & EVIL.’ The rich young ruler did all the GOOD
things by obeying all the law. THIS GOODNESS KEPT HIM FROM ACCEPTING
JESUS’S REQUIREMENT. When Eve was confronted by God: “she said :”HE
DECEIVED ME!”
Now, consider what James said in his book: ch 1 vs 14 -16. DO NOT OBEY
YOUR TEMPTATION TO SIN. IF YOU ARE TEMPTED DO NOT BE( DECEIVED.)
V 16. Remember Eve was: “DECEIVED.” James said instead : “ACCEPT THE
(GOOD) & PERFECT GIFT FROM GOD.. SO, THIS IS THE RIGHT GOOD”
Even, Jesus said to the young ruler: ONLY GOD IS GOOD, Even tho He did
not say it: JESUS WAS GOOD BECAUSE HE ONLY DID WHAT HIS FATHER
DID!.
ANOTHER (GOOD) IS ROMANS 12 VS 1-2…..BE NOT CONFORMED TO
THIS WORLD ( Do not BE DECEIVED BY OBEYING Your temptations to sin like the world does)
but BE TRANSFORMED BY THE RENEWING OF YOUR MIND WHICH IS
GOOD) & ACCEPTABLE WILL OF GOD.
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Wow, Bernie, I had never thought about what you just described here so perfectly! You wrote,
“About DECEPTION: First know that there is “GOOD” without God: Eve ate of the tree of knowledge of GOOD & EVIL.’ The rich young ruler did all the GOOD things by obeying all the law. THIS GOODNESS KEPT HIM FROM ACCEPTING JESUS’S REQUIREMENT.”
Yes, indeed! There is “good” without God and your examples reveal that the real GOOD has to be perfect and always happens according to God’s will. What thought-provoking ideas you shared here! Thank you very much, dear brother. 🙂
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Yes, very good point, Bernie. Susanne, you summed it up by writing, “There is ‘good’ without God and your examples reveal that the real GOOD has to be perfect and always happens according to God’s will.” WOW! You nailed it! Like Jesus said to that religious man,
Then we read Peter’s description of Jesus,
By calling Jesus good, that man was unwittingly saying that Jesus and His Father are ONE. And here Peter links His “doing good and healing” as God being present IN Christ.
The temptation of Eve in the garden was a temptation to be “good” and to know the difference between good and evil WITHOUT GOD! This is what the religions of men are filled with… men and women trying to be good with their own strength and constantly deciding for themselves by their understandings of Holy Writ what is good and what is evil without following His Spirit in all things. How often was our Lord judged for “doing evil” because He healed on the Sabbath or for the harmless actions of His disciples that were not according to the letter of the law? God change our hearts! For it is so easy for us to fall into this same trap and judge our Lord’s servants according to our own preconceived ideas of “good and evil” when it is to God to alone that they shall stand or fall. We are called to love all men and women with the heart of Christ in us not to judge others by that forbidden tree. Ours is the Tree of Life that is in the river of God whose waters flow freely.
Love to you both! ❤
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Dear Michael,
Thank you very much for your great exposition on my quote from above in my response to Bernie. ⭐
Love to you too ❤
Susanne
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Great post. I don’t fear being deceived anymore because I know His voice so well, but I sure used to. As to mystics, charismatics, people who have close encounters of the God kind, I think it’s a bit sad that we’re so skeptical these days. We forget some of the mystery in the bible, a burning bush, a talking donkey, a disembodied hand. God speaks to us anyway He wants, however we will listen, and some of those things can be pretty crazy. It puts a whole new twist on, “lean not into your own understanding.”
As to non believers, that is something I really have to lay at the foot of the cross and trust God to handle. I can’t save anybody, only God can. Something I always try to remember, we don’t really know what goes on in that twilight zone between death and life, but God does. He could be saving a militant atheist at the last moment for all I know. It’s a really valuable lesson for me to hang onto, because it requires total trust in God. He knows people’s beginning and their ending, but I do not. I can trust that He will reach the people He wants to reach and go about spreading the good news of the gospel myself without that burden of having to save souls. God saves, not me.
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Gabrielle, Very good! His sheep hear His voice and they will not follow another. When John warned about the many anti-christs that were already out in the world at the end of the first century, we was writing about false teachers. He then went on to emphasize to them that they who had the Spirit in them had NO need that any man should teach them, but that this same unction would lead them into all truth.
The same is the problem today… many false teachers who seek a following and who do not point the saints to Christ and His Spirit as being all that they need. If the paid church leaders taught this way, they would soon be out of a job and Christ would soon be the Head of His body again and Satan does not want that.
Yes, dear sister, following Christ is a mystical experience. We are to walk in many life changing experiences with the Living God as He conforms us into the image of His Son. God bless you, dear sister!
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Thank you for mentioning those mystical examples from the Bible, Gabrielle. That has been very helpful! ⭐ Indeed, we tend to forget that an encounter with the Living God has always been an encounter where two realms meet one another, i.e., the visible and the invisible realm. How could that NOT be mystical? But Satan knows that and offers us countless revelations as well, while our real encounters with God might happen rarely in comparison to the devil’s suggestions. So, as long as one depends on having permanent revelations from God, they can and will be deceived, I presume.
What you said about the twilight zone between death and life is something that has been on my heart and mind since I had my own near death experience in 1998. Afterwards I could not help but believe that God will run after everyone in order to get him saved, just as Jesus, our Savior, revealed God’s great and unconditional love for ALL mankind on the cross (cf. Lk 23:34).
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Wow I love that last comment by insanitybytes22–Mikes was great too–and Sue your post is top notched as always–I was doing my usual and waiting for Papa to speak to me before my comment and I think He gave me a revelation–the thought came to me that in the story of Jesus it was always the scripterists that criticized Him not the ordinary folks and that’s where I get my attacks from.
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Yes, Ken, you are correct. It was the Bible thumpers and “fruit inspectors” that hounded Him everywhere He went. He was a friend of publicans, harlots and sinners and the religious ones hated Him for it. Even the word translated “multitudes” as in those who followed Him is interesting in the Greek…
ochlos
Thayer Definition:
1) a crowd
1a) a casual collection of people
1a1) a multitude of men who have flocked together in some place
1a2) a throng
1b) a multitude
1b1) the common people, as opposed to the rulers and leading men
1b2) with contempt: the ignorant multitude, the populace
You are in good company, my brother! ❤
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Thank you very much for your encouraging words, Ken! 🙂
Indeed, I only have great commenters here on Entering the Promised Land. What a blessing you are all to me!!! ⭐
I was sorry to hear that you are being attacked by others because of what and maybe how you believe, my brother. 😦
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RENEWING OF THE MIND COMES FROM PUTTING THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD FIRST PLACE IN YOUR LIFE. WITH THIS YOU NEED NOT WORRY (Matthew 6 vs 25-33) CAN BE AT PEACE WITH YOUR MIND STAYED ON THIS KNOWLEDGE.(Isaiah 26 v 3) AS GABRIELLE SAID; YOU WILL TRUST IN GOD AND NOT ON YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING.(Proverbs 3 vs 5-6). YOU GET THIS KNOWLEDGE BY BIBLE READING AND FROM BIBLE TEACHERS WHO RIGHTLY EXPLAIN THE TRUTH. THEY KNOW (2nd Timothy 3 v 16-17) “ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OF GOD AND IS PROFITABLE FOR DOCTRINE, (to convince), FOR CORRECTION, FOR INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT THE MAN OF GOD MAY BE COMPLETE, THOROUGHLY EQUIPPED FOR EVERY GOOD WORK’
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Dear Bernie, that was from God for me today. You said,
“RENEWING OF THE MIND COMES FROM PUTTING THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD FIRST PLACE IN YOUR LIFE. WITH THIS YOU NEED NOT WORRY (Matthew 6 vs 25-33) CAN BE AT PEACE WITH YOUR MIND STAYED ON THIS KNOWLEDGE (Isaiah 26 v 3) AS GABRIELLE SAID, YOU WILL TRUST IN GOD AND NOT ON YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING (Proverbs 3 vs 5-6).”
Thank you very much! 🙂
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There is another ANSWER TO A PROBLEM: (DEPRESSION): ” WHY ARE YOU CAST DOWN (in misery), O MY SOUL?… (answer): HOPE IN GOD!” In Psalms
42 v 5 & 11, 43 v 5.. IT WAS REPEATED. So, It must have been a REAL
PROBLEM FOR HIM! IT IS KNOWN THAT “HOPE” IS THE ANSWER TO
DEPRESSION. THE ONE WHO IS SUICIDAL HAS LOST ALL HOPE.
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So true, Bernie… been there myself, but not since Christ came into me. Yes, I have been at my wits end a few times and “hope differed made my heart grow sick,” but I never was suicidal again for Christ in me has become my only hope. Or as Job put it, “Though He should slay me, yet will I trust Him.”
Now that is a funny thought… In a sense THAT is exactly what HE has been doing… killing all that is in me of that old Adam so that I MIGHT TRULY TRUST HIM ALONE! 🙂
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I feel so sorry for everyone who still feels so depressed that they are tormented by suicidal thoughts. From my own experience I know that this hope that takes away our misery can only be given by God.
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Pingback: Can we be deceived? | The Road
Thanks for linking to my blog, Tim. Much appreciated! 🙂
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Trusting God to save those we love, who are not yet believers, is an enormous challenge. We must, in effect, give God control over what He already HAS control, i.e. the welfare of those who are most precious to us, those for whom we would give our very lives.
Of course, their lives are in God’s hands no less than ours. And He gave the life of His Son to redeem them. When we remember that, our fears should vanish…not that they necessarily do, I admit.
But Satan can, also, use pride to undermine our faith.
The lie that a single road to Salvation is “ungenerous” has induced many Christians — who ought to know better — to accept alternate routes to Salvation than Christ. Buddhism can’t be so bad, can it? How about Hinduism then? And Wiccans are just serving the power of good or God by another name, aren’t they?
We will save these non-believers, if God is unwilling. Or so we delude ourselves. This does nothing but compromise the truth.
Just my two cents.
With love,
Anna ❤
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I am no universalist, either, as you might know, dear Anna. And we both know that there is only one way that leads to God and thus to heaven. It is Jesus Christ.
What amazed me extremely in the past was the similarity I saw when I compared my own NDE in 1998 with those of people who belonged to other religions or were mere atheists. Of course, they did not meet Jesus as I did, but they were confronted with The Light as they came close to death. And their descriptions and mine regarding the consequences of the NDE were almost the same: they did not fear death any longer, and they immediately realized that knowledge, or rather wisdom, and love are the most important things in life.
Love to you ❤
Susanne
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Susanne – I’d be interested to read of your NDE. Is there a link please?
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Yes, there is, Richard, You can find it under “My Testimony”, 1995 – 2008: Years of the Wilderness, see https://enteringthepromisedland.wordpress.com/2014/06/13/my-testimony/.
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Susanne, I was introduced to your blog by Tim Shey’s reblog of this post and agree with your remark on mysticism 100%. In fact on that day, whilst writing about Neville Johnson’s teaching, I listened more closely to what he’d said about the prophetic word as stated in 2 Peter 1.
In doing so it was the first time I recalled being wrongly taught about prophecy by a group of so-called mystics but who were into occultism. (If interested, see my remarks in parenthesis in section ‘The Word of Prophecy’ in > http://wp.me/p1Y1yB-79b. That group purported to have medieval German as well as ancient Egyptian origins.)
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Thank you very much, Richard. Did you mean these remarks right after the Scripture?
“We have a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawns that the star rises in your heart.”
[That particular verse was one of the very few referred to by the initiatory mystical group I studied under before I was rescued from Satan’s domain. Presumptuously they used it to suppose they’d attained a special level of transcendent knowledge. But it was nothing of the sort compared with true prophecy that comes by God’s Holy Spirit. It’s abundantly obvious had the verse’s full context been considered. Shortly after the Lord rescued me I asked Him about that group as I opened my Bible. It fell open and I was transfixed by 2 Peter 2:1 – ie. just a few verses on from those abused ones, as told in this part of my testimony.]
PS
The only thing I could offer here is one of my older articles about the morning star, 2 Peter 1, and Joel Osteen. If you have time and are interested, here’s the link, Richard.
https://enteringthepromisedland.wordpress.com/2014/09/16/when-the-morning-star-rises/
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Richard and Susanne,
Anytime a teacher or church leader claims special knowledge or an inside track to God and His kingdom we should get a red flag! God is NOT a respecter of people, but has made Christ and His Spirit who teaches us available to ALL that are in His New Covenant (also read 1 Cor 3). There has been an distortion of emphasis on the prophetic gifts these days and many false teachers and false prophets have made themselves a following (and much money) as a result. The passage that points to Christ as our ALL and how different HE is from that Old Covenant mindset that had many intermediaries says it all for me…
The problem is that most men want a king to rule over them and go to God and get what then need and feed it to them second hand instead of dwelling in a personal relationship with the LIVING WORD of God who STILL SPEAKS!
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Excellent, Michael! ⭐
Thank you very much for your elucidating words.
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Thanks Susanne, especially for your other post’s insights. (Apologies for the delay but our long weekends are usually ‘cyber-silent’.)
To answer your question: ‘Yes’ – but I referred to the opening phrase on the ‘Word’ only, not the rest.
It was brief of necessity because of my distaste, but the Lord was using this memory to highlight the contrast. Also, it fits in with how He’s delivering upon a personal word about a dream of 40 years ago being realised (in connection with entering the promised land!!). That puzzled me because I was then in the demonic. Yet, in my heart I was searching for the truth about God and wanting to see what Jesus did 2000 years ago being done today. (My latest post refers briefly to this.)
That group’s purpose in truncating scripture was to relate it to a title based upon Moses as a prophet. No more was taught or practised about prophecy – they were completely clueless compared to Jesus who himself is ‘the Spirit of Prophecy’ because HE is the Word.
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You’re welcome, Richard. No need for apologies! 🙂
Thank you very much for your very helpful and detailed explanation. Isn’t it strange how long we often need to wait on God until He reveals the reality and truth of things He has shown us way earlier? Phew! There is a lot of patience needed, something I usually do NOT have. 😉
A dream of yours “in connection with entering the promised land”? Makes me curious, to be honest… 🙂
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Thanks Michael and totally agree with you.
In fact, had it not been for material I’d been working upon, I’d intended covering similar remarks by a prophetic teacher on what he’d heard from the Lord on distorted prophetic words.
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I’m waiting on the Lord to unveil more on this ‘puzzle’. It seems – for now- to mean more of a ‘desire’ that was in my spirit, a seed no doubt planted by Him for watering and fruition in due course. Very interesting how a prophet’s words at the weekend about 2015-16 may relate to this – and to your blog’s title!
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Indeed, VERY interesting! Seems to be part of God’s unfathomable, but often also humourous guidance… 😉
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Yes indeed. I was shocked in my early days (1990s) in a Baptist church that a young Elder spoke of the Lord having a sense of humour – sacrilegious!
But then I recalled my vow as a New Ager years earlier. After a small inter-church dinner I said “I wouldn’t touch Baptist with a ‘barge-pole’ because they’re such Biblical bigots”. I realised God has the last laugh – after my ‘NDE’ He’d put me with them for a good grounding in scripture!
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About having a concern for the lost: I know of someone who was trained & was a Christian then. NOW, SHE IS NOT ACTIVE.So. I have this scripture on my bible to remind me to pray it often: Proverbs 22 v 6 “TRAIN UP A CHILD IN THE WAY SHE SHOULD GO. WHEN SHE IS OLD, SHE WILL NOT DEPART FROM IT.”
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Yes, Bernie, I am glad we can find this verse in Scripture. Even if our children rebel against God, He will draw them back to Himself when they get older. That is my hope too.
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Susanne and Bernie,
Right after I was filled with the Spirit of Christ, I was talking with my Baptist grandfather who was a believer about the Bible and he brought up this very scripture and asked me why it didn’t work regarding my father and his siblings. My Papo and B’mommy had made sure that their kids went to Sunday school and service every Sunday morning in the Southern Baptist denomination when they were growing up, but when they were older they had all left the S. B. denomination and only one of the six of them went to church at all and my dad had become a Catholic and all but the church going one were alcoholic and abusive to their children and half had been divorced.
It was then that the Spirit told me the answer to his question. The scripture says, “Train up a child IN the way he should go…” It does not say to raise him up ABOUT the way he should go. My grandfather was a hard and strict disciplinarian and worked the kids on the farm like slaves. He never showed them love or grace as they were growing up. They were raised ABOUT Jesus, but not IN Christ and His love and they rebelled when as soon as they got away from home. My old grand dad thanked God that I came to Christ often. I guess that he saw my salvation as redeeming what he lost in my own father.
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Michael, I appreciate your transparency. When discussing the plan of salvation (bear with me a moment), it’s often said that it’s not sufficient to simply acknowledge that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, i.e. a human incarnation of God. Even Satan believes that. We are saved when that belief becomes a conviction that is soul-deep. The role of repentance is to turn intellectual assent into a soul-deep conviction as we invite Jesus to take over our life.
Similarly, intellectual knowledge of the Bible does not change behavior. Those beautiful nuggets of wisdom that we find in Scripture from time to time, create a bit of excitement, but will not inspire action until those nuggets of wisdom are converted from an intellectual “discovery” into a soul-deep conviction. That’s true of every word of Scripture.
If you observe someone else latching onto a Scriptural principle at a soul-deep level, jump back out of the way. There is no stopping him then.
With respect to your message, it is the parent’s responsibility to embed Scriptural convictions in their children. It is not sufficient to just teach the children Bible stories about Joseph’s coat of many colors. That is the sense of the verse, “Train up a child in the way he should go…” Convictions drive behavior not mere knowledge.
Training up a child requires a role model bio-Dad and a role model bio-Mom in a committed ’til-death-do-us-part marriage relationship. On my blog site at lloydstebbins.com I just posted a message entitled, “Dad and Mom are Superheroes.” More details there.
Training up a child also means routinely learning to meet the physical, emotional, and spiritual needs of others. It does not mean volunteering for a lot of stuff at church that masquerades as “service.” Jesus modeled service as meeting the needs of other individuals one person at a time. But that’s another discussion.
Enjoy an incredible and blessed day!
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That was a great revelation, Michael, which God gave you about the “IN-part” of this Scripture.
Yes, as long as Bible verses remain theory and are not being practiced by obeying the Holy Spirit’s nudges in our lives, anything we might tell our children about God and the Bible will fall to the ground before reaching the target (which should be the heart and the mind together).
As for your own story, well, in my case it was also my grandmother (my mother’s mother) who had come to know Jesus. Apart from her later, only me, none of her children. Although she was a loving mother and had been married to a loving husband who believed in God, only she had a relationship with Jesus. That reminds me of what Jesus told us,
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.” (Jn 6:44 ESV)
“It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” (Jn 6:63-65 ESV)
Without the Holy Spirit making alive what we say and do, we can keep talking until we get blue in the face.
Or green… 😉
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Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Lloyd.
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Susanne, you bring up a great point about it taking the Father’s will to draw us to Christ. Jesus made this very clear. Yet, I have to also mention the power of prayer for our children as well as our example. All the time I was thrashing about in the world, especially in the last couple of years when I was about to go crazy, I had a mother-in-law and two grand parents praying for me. You might say that “the hound of heaven” was on my heals as a result. I KNEW something spiritual was going on, but being ignorant of spiritual things, I was clueless as to what to do about it. Finally, the Spirit broke through the cloud of my mixed up mind and touched my heart through the love of the very people that I had hated, a bunch of Hippie looking kids that had the love of God in their hearts. Funny how all those years in the RCC and a couple in a “Bible Church” and I never saw that kind of love there. Our Father knows just what we need and when we need it, wouldn’t you say? BTW, your daughter will make it. God will prevail in her life and I believe your loving example will not be forgotten by her. She is in my prayers as well as yours. ❤
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Thank you so much, Michael. ❤
I have always believed in the salvation of my whole family and I believe this faith was God-given (perhaps when I had my NDE in 1998, not sure).
Indeed, I think that both my grandmother and my mother prayed for me in the past. Also, I recall having read that Augustine of Hippos’s mother had prayed for nine years (as far as I remember his story) to see her son saved from his immoral lifestyle.
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About hitchhiking: In college I did some. I was with one man who began to
touch my inner thigh! Man, I got out as soon as I could.I assumed that he was
up to no good! MY LAST TIME, I WAS ON BREAK IN MEDICAL SCHOOL’
I WORKED AS AN INTERN PART OF THE TIME. I MADE ENOUGH MONEY
TO PURCHASE A WEDDING RING. THEN, I HIKED FROM MEMPHIS, TEN-
NESSEE TO BLOOMINGTON, INDIANA TO PROPOSE TO PAT WHEN SHE
WAS IN SCHOOL THERE FOR THE SUMMER. You know SHE ACCEPTED!
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Oh Bernie, I would have done the same if I had been sitting in that car! 😛
But what you shared about your marriage proposal to Pat here was so sweet! What a lovely story, Bernie and Pat Orr!! ❤ + ❤
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Interesting thoughts. During high school, I routinely hitchhiked from a mountain top, where I lived down to a valley to an arena to go ice skating. While in college, I hitchhiked home once–ordinarily a three hour drive. I blazed a trail and hitched it in only 12 hours. But in those days hitchhiking was safe and common. Whoops! I might be revealing my age.
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You’re a funny guy, Lloyd. Thanks for sharing your own experience with hitchhiking. 🙂
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About Tim’s hitchhiking. I assume he has the HOLY SPIRIT as protection.
So, I suspect he is in God’s will to do it. I know of a well known true Bible
teacher who travels in air to his next ANOINTED TEACHING; HE SAYS
THERE IS NO WAY THAT PLANE WOULD CRASH SINCE HE WAS ON IT!
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I assume Tim Shey has the Spirit’s protection since he said that it was God who wanted him to hitchhike (as far as I remember Tim’s testimony).
Hmm… What you shared about the Bible teacher, honestly, at the first moment sounds a bit arrogant to my ears unless he meant that the plane could not crash because GOD was on it…?
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Yes, could not crash.
I get from Michael “IN” means that the parents must not only tell “about”
but live as an “EXAMPLE) of training.
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That’s the way I understood Michael’s comment too, Bernie.
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Yup! (y)
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Yes, Bernie, kids learn by observation and they emulate what they see. This is can be a positive thing if they are loved and respected by the one who raises them. This is what it means to become as a child in order to enter the kingdom of heaven. That kingdom is a heart condition, not an outward scholastic exercise of the mind where most churches operate. Jesus lived His loving relationship with His Father among the disciples and loved them in a One on one way. Our society and parenting is usually too busy “building forests” to take quality time for the individual “trees.” Jesus was raised in a family based culture and grew up with his step-father in his carpenter shop in a small community where everyone knew each other. That was the way families were… close and caring. Today the whole system is wrong and it has seduced its members and children are offered up on the altar of their parent’s drive for success.
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This is enlightening. Thank you very much.
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You are very welcome, Fred. Glad you found it helpful. 🙂
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[quote]”“Behold, O My people, I will open your graves…” (Ezekiel 37:12). When God wants to show you what human nature is like separated from Himself, He shows it to you in yourself. If the Spirit of God has ever given you a vision of what you are apart from the grace of God (and He will only do this when His Spirit is at work in you), then you know that in reality there is no criminal half as bad as you yourself could be without His grace. My “grave” has been opened by God and “I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells” (Romans 7:18). God’s Spirit continually reveals to His children what human nature is like apart from His grace.”[quote]
That part gives me great hope. I have been feeling so down because I fear I am not good enough for GOD. I find my self crying out for help almost the whole time I am awake or I am trying to fine some thing to distract me from looking what was reveiled to me. Although lately GOD has been revealing his love to me. He even answered quetsions I have had.
Any way thanks for this post. Also I am glad to see more posts as I didn’t think we would be seeing any more. So thanking very much for sticking around.
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You are welcome as to this repost, Fred. I am glad to hear that it gave you hope, too. Merry Christmas to you and all who read this! 🎼🎶🎹🎤🎶😇
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I need to correct what I said. What I mean by trying to find distractions is I keep looking inward at my self and how much I fail to be as GOD wants us to be which is what was revailed to me. Not that I am trying to hide from GOD no I am trying to seek his help in these areas I fail in. I desppratly need his help. Oh have mercy on me on Lord for my failed words above. I know how much shame I feel when I fail at even my words that I feel condemn me. Please help me with even my own words so I can speak/ type pleasing to you. Create in me a New heart so that every thing I do think and say is pleasing to you oh Lord and edifying to those around me specially your children and my brothers and sisters in Chrst. May we all be more and more like a sheep and less and less like a goat. Thank you and Amen
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I might be wrong here, Fred, but I assume you might be a perfectionist, like me. Every little mistake is an OUCH to me. We need to try to direct our eyes away from ourselves and back to Him in whom we are already perfect. Difficult to do, I know… 🙄
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Oh yes I am a perfectionist. I am told it runs in the family, my biological family any way. I think this might be way one of the first things GOD showed me is that my Rightousness is found in Jesus not in me. I am not sure what the very first thing was though maybe just his love.
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My biological family… just the same, all of them perfectionists. 😊 I believe we are all loved by Him just the way we are since being changed into the image of Christ is something we cannot accomplish on our own.
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