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discerning the spirits, encouragement, experience, God's love, intimacy, life, light, love, Michael Clark, sanctification, the dark night of the soul, the dark night of the spirit, the Kingdom of God, the new self, the old self
After sunrise in the Public Pool (Fürth/Scherbsgraben)
Photo by Susanne Schuberth
After a pretty long and dry period without much inspiration, here is another joint article by Michael Clark and me.
Satan is a liar. And he is very good at that. He tells us to worry about tomorrow because God would not care or provide. Therefore, we fear the future although we might know there are Scriptures which promise the opposite of what the devil keeps whispering into our ears. If we are tempted to sin, our enemy embellishes the act of sinning and plays the consequences down by offering us only good feelings that should make us fall asleep spiritually. And what is worst, Satan tries to convince us that God could NEVER give us what he, Satan, offers. Instead, he presents God as a someone who would take everything from us which would, if we listened to the devil, make our life worthwhile (I am mainly referring to sin here). Although we might spell out the appropriate Bible verses to the angel of light, he will only laugh at us, knowing that our natural heart is terribly wicked and inclined to commit every sin imaginable if the right conditions were presented to us.
Satan is a liar. I, Susanne, repeat it because I know that God only takes away what we have offered up to Him beforehand so that He can finally give us something far better than we might have expected… EVER! Basically, whether someone cheats or lies, commits burglary, adultery or atrocities, the reason for acting as our own little gods has always been distrust and suspicion toward the Eternal God. Just as Satan tempted Eve in the Garden with distrust towards God by saying, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?” (Gen 3:1 ESV) We truly need a personal revelation from God and His immanent goodness so that we begin to see that Satan was never creative when he introduced sin in the Garden of Eden. Instead, he merely imitated what he saw in heaven from which he fell because he no longer wanted to submit to God. We might agree on this that an imitation usually, even if close to its original, is not better than the source. However, God’s love cannot be imitated. His love can solely be ridiculed if taken for granted and as ‘known’ by human beings on a natural level of perception. Even if someone has had experiences of feeling loved by God, this is only the beginning of getting to know God. Yet the Kingdom of God provides mysteries that this natural life we are all used to cannot, can NEVER provide. We have mere hints of these things when we have come to ‘know’ God’s love on a very personal and intimate level, just as the apostle Paul did in certain Scriptures too.
“But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. But, as it is written, “What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him”— these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.” (1 Cor 2:7-10 ESV)
“…nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him…” God’s love for us and with us is beyond anything we could have imagined as we open our hearts in love for Him. This is part of the secret wisdom of God and what He has for us if we let go of the things of this world and cling to Him with all our hearts. The next Bible verse comes closer to the point as we read here,
“The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.” (1 Cor 6:13 ESV)
I know that I, Susanne, alluded in a few older posts to these things before, but having gone through a painful and very dark night of the spirit, God had blacked out all these wonderful experiences with His love and eternal life on earth to me for a pretty long time. Today it more and more dawns on me that bearing the cross in order to die to our old self and to the law of sin and death NEVER were God’s last words. These things need to be endured, yes, but afterwards we are raised to a spiritual newness of life we have not known before. Every gospel preaching that simply refers to the redemption of our spirits and souls misses the point. We do not need to wait “until next life after death” if, by God’s grace, He pours out His Spirit into our whole being and fills us from head to toe with His light, love, and life. In fact, our body may delight in the eternal God too as the last Scripture above says, Our body is meant for the Lord, and the Lord is meant for the body! Now I decided to close and cloak myself in secrecy regarding God’s mysterious love to every one of us and to leave the last part of this entry and its Scriptural confirmation to Michael.
We read above that our bodies are meant for the Lord, not each other unless God is in that relationship. Actually, what God has sanctified let no man call unclean (cf. Acts 11:9). In the following verses there are more hints as to the body part in sanctification. The apostle Paul wrote,
Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. He who calls you is faithful; he will surely do it. (1Thess 5:23-24, ESV2011)
Paul’s definition of sanctification almost gets to the bottom of what can be openly said regarding God’s intimate love to His children IN Christ, for it is written,
For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality; that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, not in the passion of lust like the Gentiles who do not know God; that no one transgress and wrong his brother in this matter, because the Lord is an avenger in all these things, as we told you beforehand and solemnly warned you. (1Thess 4:3-6, ESV2011)
Hopefully, this article was a bit thought-provoking to our dear readers…
Susanne, many of us were raised in churches that taught holiness and denying the body as the route to that holiness. Yet, we see in the Scriptures that God wants us to dedicate our body, soul and spirit unto Him. As members of Christ’s body we should give ourselves totally to Him especially when it comes to our relationships with one another for we are not only members of His body, but members of one another. Selfless love from God flowing through our hearts is the key. Against this kind of love there is no law. God always looks upon the heart. Thanks for sharing His light with us once again. ⭐
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Michael, indeed, denying the body is taught in many denominations by those who only know things about God, but have not known God in an intimate way as yet. This latter knowledge will never puff up while the accumulation of ‘information’ about God does (1 Cor 8:1). You are very welcome as to the sharing of my latest experiences which led to what I would write on here. Thank you for sharing the proper Scriptures with me and for proof-reading, too, my dear brother. 🐱
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You are always welcome to what the Spirit gives me as I read what you share with me, scriptures and otherwise. 😀
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You’re funny, Michael! XD
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Would you clarify what is meant by “…for we are not only members of His body, but members of each other”? I can see someone mistaking that idea for permission to engage in sexual sin. The culture around us grows ever more corrupt. There is a so called reality program titled “Marriage Boot Camp”. This season their ads promise a polygamous situation.
For some reason this post reminded me of the old chestnut about heaven and the spoons. A newly deceased soul is told by St. Peter he may choose either heaven or hell. (We know, of course, that our choice as to Salvation must be made in this life.) In any case, the soul asks to see both options.
St. Peter takes him first to hell. There are large pots of delicious food cooking everywhere. But no one is eating. The damned have each been provided spoons w/ handles so long, it is impossible to reach their mouths. The new soul says, “I see the irony. All this food, and no way to eat it. That must be torture.”
St. Peter then takes the soul to see heaven. Amazingly, the scene is identical, but everyone seems happy and well-fed. Yet the spoons are equally long! “What is the difference?” the soul asks, puzzled. St. Peter says, “Oh, here we just feed each other.” And that, of course, is love.
With love and thanks to you both,
Your friend Anna ❤
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That was a great analogy you shared here, dear Anna. ❤ This describes the way the Body of Christ should work perfectly! ⭐
And you are right, once again. Being members of one another must be understood on a spiritual level since God who is Spirit shares His love with us only in the spiritual realm of which the body eventually profits too. We may never forget that the Holy Spirit must be the source and author of spiritual love. If we confuse it with the flesh and the lust of the eyes, we will end in sexual sin, no doubt about this. We have had a cult here in Bavaria for some years now that promotes engaging in such ‘outside-of-marriage-sexual-relationships’, too. It is a mess, indeed!!! 😦
With much love to you,
Your friend Susanne ❤
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I too like that analogy. Awesome!
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Can I share this on facebook?
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Share what? Anna’s analogy?
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Anna’s anology
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Okay. Hopefully, she will read your comment.
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This was good and thank you.
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You’re very welcome, Fred. Good to hear from you again. Hope you are doing well.
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Thank you very much for the reblog, dear Michael! 🙂
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A Wonderful message, thanks for sharing.
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You’re welcome, Albert. Glad you liked our post.
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Such rest in this. Thank you for this reminder, Susanne. 🙂
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You are very welcome, David. 🙂
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Wow I loved that story by Anna!
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Yes, me too, Ken.
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Me three! 🙂
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Funny! 😊
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Me Four!!! LOL I was wondering if there was going to be a me 3 comment. Michael beat me. Good post. Yes Satan is a liar. Messing with my mind for about a good 2-3 weeks. But kept reading the word everyday anyways.
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Happy to hear from you too, dear Stacey. ❤ Thanks for your encouraging words, my sister. Glad you could resist the devil! I just lately found out that it is impossible to do so without His help.
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The verse in 1 Corinthians 6:13 is an obvious contrast. On one hand we have an individual who is living for themselves (evidenced by the sin of sexual immorality) and another person who has chosen to dedicate their body to the Lord. The Bible is clear in many places that the former is not really a believer at all (Luke 9:23-25) and that all true Christians are called to die daily (1 Corinthians 15:31) to their self interest. Now we know that humanity in itself is not evil, nor our bodies, but due to indwelling sin our bodies can become the vehicle through which sin is expressed.
I also agree that our bodies are not the issue, just as denying ourselves isn’t really a body issue as it is a heart issue. Many people, similar to those who have tried to tame the tongue discover this same thing and show our efforts to control ourselves completely beyond our own capabilities.
God’s has truly manifested his love in ways only the redeemed can understand. But even among these their are many misunderstandings, and yes even distrust (to our shame) that a personal cross is somehow a detriment to living when in fact it is the manner in which we are ushered into real life in Him. And praise God, no this is not the end. There can be, and indeed their is a resurrection- even in this life!
We are called to work with God, following His example, which first includes believing (trusting in His finished work) and choosing…..therefore if anyone cleanses himself from these things, he will be a vessel (body) for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work (2 Timothy 2:21). It takes both, for we are not capable in ourselves and yet with Him the great “I will do it” becomes reality for those who trust in Him.
The only difference between those who wrestle with 2 Corinthians 5:14-14, 15 (those who may or may not live for themselves, NASB) are those given the revelation of the mutual benefit of the cross. No one would naturally desire to die were there not some benefit to be derived. How could Paul be undeterred in his desire to return to Jerusalem (despite the protests of fellow apostles) where we knew his fate to be sealed? How could multitudes of people become martyrs and suffer under horrible atrocities? Because they learned to die daily.
All our Father has done is in the best interest of His children. Those who embrace the cross know this to be true, they have and are deriving the benefit and thus proving the love of Christ to the world around them. They alone walk worthy of His calling.
Woahhh….I think I was thought provoked!
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Indeed, Michael, I think you were thought provoked. 🙂
Great thoughts! Thanks for sharing.
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Well put, Michael F.! Good to hear from you again. ⭐
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Susanna – Glad you mentioned this “Today it more and more dawns on me that bearing the cross in order to die to our old self and to the law of sin and death NEVER were God’s last words. These things need to be endured, yes, but afterwards we are raised to a spiritual newness of life we have not known before.” The enemy likes to keep our eyes ,focus, on the dying part and off the resurrection ,life of Jesus and power part , Thank the Lord for both parts. only eternity will tell the great things the Lord has done. -wayne
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Yes, Wayne, it is so true that Satan keeps us focused on the dying part, esp. when we are in the midst of a trial and cannot see the horizon opening up as yet. Today I also thank the Lord for both parts since I more and more see that suffering brings forth good fruit, particularly the fruit of compassion for those with whom I had none before. That must have been God’s work! 🙂
Blessings,
Susanne
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Amen, dear sister! I have seen that love and compassion, even a willingness to reach out and get out of your comfort zone… all these manifestations of His great love growing in you over the last several months I have known you. You have given me new meaning to Paul’s words, “Death works in me that life might abound to others.”
Holy hugs!
Michael
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Thank you very much for your encouraging words, dear Michael. God knows that I needed that JUST NOW!!
Holy hugs,
Susanne 🐱
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Susanne, you wrote:
“Satan tries to convince us that God could NEVER give us what he, Satan, offers. Instead, he presents God as a someone who would take everything from us which would… make our life worthwhile… Satan is a liar. I, Susanne, repeat it because I know that God only takes away what we have offered up to Him beforehand so that He can finally give us something far better than we might have expected… EVER!”
Oh, boy! How true. I saw this again today as the enemy tried to convince me that I should walk away from a relationship that Father had given me in the Spirit with one of His saints due to a big misunderstanding. It seems that the closer we come to walking in the Light of Christ with each other, the more Satan is threatened by the light that shines forth from us as a result of our Light filled unity. When Christ’s light shines forth from our love filled hearts as we fellowship in that light, the world has a witness that Christ is real and was sent down to us by the Father just as John wrote in ch. 17 of his gospel. I have never known such sweet fellowship and at the same time such a brazen attack of the enemy to destroy it by even tempting us to do so with our own hands, waking away from the promises of God as if they meant nothing. I know you know what I mean, dear sister.
There is a difference between us walking away in disbelief and our offering up what Father has given to us, as a LIVING sacrifice unto Him (just as Abraham did with His Isaac). I am slowly learning that difference. It is so much in my nature as a Vietnam War vet to just walk away from a relationship when I start to feel betrayed or am losing the one I love (true or not) and say to myself, “It don’t mean nothing!” Satan has so tempted me to put up a wall around my heart when this happens “so it can’t happen again.” Yet, the love of God compels us to believe that God is working in them even through those things they do that hurt us and that after the battle is over, His love in us will always shine forth even brighter than before.
“If you prepare your heart, you will stretch out your hands toward him [to God]. If iniquity is in your hand, put it far away, and let not injustice [Satan’s temptations) dwell in your tents. Surely then you will lift up your face without blemish; you will be secure and will not fear. You will forget your misery; you will remember it as waters that have passed away. And your life will be brighter than the noonday; its darkness will be like the morning. And you will feel secure, because there is hope; you will look around and take your rest in security. You will lie down, and none will make you afraid; many will court your favor. ” (Job 11:13-19, ESV2011)
Yes, my dear sister, “God only takes away what we have offered up to Him beforehand so that He can finally give us something far better than we might have expected… EVER!” With God it is death then resurrection, evening then morning. Paul put it this way,
“So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.” (1Cor 15:42-44, ESV2011)
There is a natural faith and it has to die but He replaces it with a spiritual faith, the faith of Jesus Christ! There is a natural hope that perishes under fire and then there is a spiritual hope which remains. There is a natural love that gets easily offended and turns away and then as we cry out to Him He gives us a spiritual love that never fails and is not easily offended ever again.
Love ❤ to you in the Son,
Michael
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That was a very rich and honest comment by you, Michael. Thank you so much! ⭐
Well, we are all human, my brother, and I would have understood completely if you had walked away in this particular case. Some things cannot be endured but by His power alone since our flesh is too weak for such horrible trials and attacks on our God-given unity.
I love how you developed on the difference between natural and spiritual faith, hope, and love. All human beings have a certain kind of these, whether they believe in God, Buddha, in goblins and fairies, or in NOTHING. And human beings hope and love, too. However, all that is natural is dependent on circumstances and cannot resist the devil and his temptations. As you said above, everything that is natural finally perishes. There are not many different faiths, hopes, and loves in this world. Indeed, there is only the love of God in Christ, and the faith of Jesus Christ that gives us eternal hope despite our adverse circumstances. And all these (faith, hope, and love) are received by grace only.
Love ❤ to you in Christ,
Susanne
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Susanne, you wrote, “Well, we are all human, my brother, and I would have understood completely if you had walked away in this particular case. Some things cannot be endured but by His power alone since our flesh is too weak for such horrible trials and attacks on our God-given unity.”
It seems that God puts a high value on us having endurance when we fight against the enemy and the desires of our flesh. “Those who endure to the end shall be saved.” It is so true that we cannot do it alone, but our endurance comes from throwing ourselves on His mercy for HIS strength and power to walk-out this life IN Christ. Yes, His faith, hope and love working in us by His grace is how we endure to the end. What wonderful lessons we are experiencing together as we walk in His Light.
“Oh, what fellowship, oh what joy divine,
Leaning on the Everlasting Arms…”
⭐ ❤
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Yes, Michael, the lessons are both painful and wonderful afterwards when God has put us through another horrible trial. What I just saw as you quoted this Scripture was indeed a confirmation of what I had thought before. We are not saved in the beginning of our walk. Instead, salvation comes in the end as we have finally been freed from our old self nature (“Those who endure to the end shall be saved.”)
Thanks for your wise input, my dear brother! ⭐ ❤
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These latest comments about endurance have answered a question that I was praying about last night.
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What a coincidence! I am glad to hear this, Fred. 🙂
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Also other things came to memory. Before I get up and read your comments I had an image come up in my head that was I think trying to explain this process. The image was a transparent man with another smaller man inside, in the center. Not to be confused with the images of those pregnant women. Any way what was revealed to me later I think with the help of your comment was that the process is kind of like how watchmen nee or watchmen lee, I forget which. In one of his books he shows a circle from what I remember and in the center is the new you and the whole circle is you the old and the new man. Eventually as the new man grows he will consume the old me and the whole you will then be the new man.
Any way what had me confused is some where saying this was an instant thing but that does not seem to fit.
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Very interesting, Fred. Thanks for sharing!
Well, that instant thing might be right as to the moment when we finally awake to our new being and NEVER get back to our old nature which has died. But until we eventually get there, it is a process, no doubt. As for the instant thing, I thought about the following Scriptures where Jesus said,
“In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.” (Jn 14:20 ESV)
“I have said these things to you in figures of speech. The hour is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figures of speech but will tell you plainly about the Father.
In that day you will ask in my name, and I do not say to you that I will ask the Father on your behalf; for the Father himself loves you, because you have loved me and have believed that I came from God.” (Jn 16:25-27 ESV)
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Susanne and Fred, I believe that our salvation was won on the cross by Christ, but our total conversion as holy and acceptable unto God is a progressive work that is done in us as living sacrifices, or as Paul put it, “I die daily.” Paul wrote about this progression as being transformed and progressively having our minds renewed.
“I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God has dealt to every man the measure of faith. (Rom 12:1-3, KJ2000)
The word “transformed” here is the Greek – metamorpho from which we get the English word metamorphosis, the PROCESS in which a many legged worm turns into a beautiful two winged butterfly.
As I looked at verse three and his admonishment to not think more highly of ourselves than we ought, but to take a sober look at who we are and our progress by God’s grace instead of doing like so many of the “once saved, always saved” crowd who look at salvation as a done deal because they once said a “sinner’s prayer” and see themselves as having arrived while they live lives still conformed to this world order. Only by embracing the daily cross that God has for His sons and daughters to bring about their death to their old natures is their a way made for the newness of life that God has for us IN Christ. Paul wrote, “every man that is among you [those who have surrendered to Christ]… not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God has dealt to every man the measure of faith,” This is about rightfully accessing our current state of growth and faith in Christ according to the working of our Father in us to bring about that transformation. We do not over estimate who we have become by His grace and we do not underestimate it, either, by burring our “talent” in the earth. The temptation is to become too proud in our estimate of who we are IN Christ or to spend our time downcast as we constantly look at how far there is to go. Our hope is found as we see ourselves by God’s grace IN the arms of the Son while His perfecting work in us proceeds.
Love you both,
Michael
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Maybe, it is simply a discord on words here, Michael.
I thought about the looong sanctification process in which we are being transformed in this two winged butterfly that is eventually born into the kingdom of God. Only then we are saved, I would say. But that does not mean that God would take away the possibility to fall back into our old habits or to return to this world’s pleasures. Yet I believe that the pull of this world will be over as soon as we get aware of the glory of God in Christ, seated with Him in the heavenlies. Then this world and men will have become mere shadows as Ossie Chambers put it. Or in apostle John’s words,
“Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world. And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever.” (1 Jn 2:15-17 ESV)
In His love,
Susanne
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Even your quote from John shows this whole thing to be progressive. Thank you for your thoughts. ⭐
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You’re welcome, Michael.
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Susanne, you wrote, “Yet I believe that the pull of this world will be over as soon as we get aware of the glory of God in Christ, seated with Him in the heavenlies. Then this world and men will have become mere shadows as Ossie Chambers put it.”
I have to admit that the downward pull of this world is very real. If the enemy cannot seduce us with the things of this world, he then inflicts us with pain and suffering that often makes us short tempered and impatient with those around us who love us. The flesh doesn’t like to suffer, but rather loves the pleasures of sin. Oh, that you are right and that I could see the glory of God in Christ seated at the right hand of the Father and be free of this old Adam in me forever. I can’t help but contemplate this passage with this thought in mind…
“Behold, what manner of love the Father has bestowed upon us, that we should be called the children of God: therefore the world knows us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the children of God, and it does not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.” (1John 3:1-2, KJ2000)
We KNOW that we are the children of God by the way the world treats us, wouldn’t you say? We just don’t fit! They have made it clear, even in the worldly churches, that we are NOT one of them. Thus all the persecution and rejection we have received. Also, here in this passage we read that “NOW we are the children of God,” not in the future. But as children we are not yet fully grown into spiritual adults in the Father’s house. We still make messes and do things that are displeasing to Him, but He never disowns us over it. But we have this hope within us, “it does not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.” There is the seeing you wrote about. A seeing of Jesus that changes us forever. I can’t help but think of Stephen before they killed Him saying, “Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God,” and his face shown like that of an angel.
“I write unto you children because your sins are forgiven you.”
“I write unto you young men because you have overcome the wicked one.”
“I have written unto you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning.”
Thanks for all your prayers, patience and kindness, dear sister.
In His love,
Michael ❤
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Very good and thought-provoking comments, Michael. Thanks a bunch for sharing them with me, my brother. 🙂
In His love,
Susanne ❤
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Encouraging and discouraging. I have no idea why and it has been bothering me lately. I am well liked by people around me. I feel like something is wrong because of that.
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I don’t think it is wrong to be liked, Fred, since who would have ever wanted to be hated? It is only IN Christ that we can love our enemies, on our own we won’t be able to love them, ever. It is all natural to seek the approval of man since without ANY approval, or even love, either from man or God, a human being dies emotionally and might get deeply depressed.
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Thank you very much.
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You’re very welcome, Fred. 🙂
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