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carnal mind, discerning the spirits, experience, following Jesus, Life and Death, Michael Clark, spirit and life, spiritual mind
“But let judgment run down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream.” (Amos 5:24 KJV) – Photo by Susanne Schuberth
If you, like me, were raised in the RCC, and even more so, in liberal circles, you might have heard the statement that all people on earth have eventually become our brothers and sisters because of Christ. But is that true? Also, are all Christians automatically His sheep who will find themselves on that very day of the Final Judgment on Christ’s right side? Let’s read the whole story in its context.
“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’ “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” (Mt 25:31-46 ESV)
You might have perceived a slight difference as to how Jesus addressed the sheep on His right and the goats on His left side [by the way, ‘right’ stands for ‘spiritual’, ‘left’ for ‘carnal’]. In verse 40 Jesus explained why the sheep were blessed to inherit the kingdom of God: they met His needs by serving their brethren (“as you did it to one of the least of these, my brothers, you did it to me”), whereas in verse 45 as Jesus spoke to the goats the words “my brothers” are missing completely because Jesus only said, “…as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.” So, what does this mean? Is it true that there cannot be a (spiritual) relationship, aka fellowship, between a carnally minded believer and a spiritual believer who has the mind of Christ? We read in Romans chapter 8,
For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you. (Rom 8:5-11 ESV)
We can clearly see the consequences of what we just read as these two conflicting mindsets either lead to eternal life or eternal death in the Final Judgement. Jesus’ brothers and sisters are only those who “have the Spirit of Christ” indwelling them (Rom 8:9). Without His Spirit, there is no life and no righteousness, either. Without Christ’s life in us, we are spiritually dead, still, since the Old Adam nature is neither able nor interested to seek the things of God. Or in other words,
“The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.” (1 Cor 2:14 ESV)
From hence, no spiritual relationship, no fellowship, and no brotherhood between these sheep and goats or between wheat and weeds. In order to substantiate the allegation that not all people on earth are our brothers and sisters, and not all who call themselves Christians, either, I was reminded of this Scripture Michael Clark lately pointed out to me where Jesus clarified, “For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.” (Mt 12:50 ESV)
How much Jesus identified with His spiritual family became pretty clear to Saul as he had persecuted many Christians in his self-righteous fury. One day Jesus all of a sudden appeared to him and asked, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting ME?” (Acts 26:14 ESV, emphasis added)
Brothers and sisters, we can say that God so loved the world that He gave His only son that the world should be saved by faith in Christ, but we must not believe that we ought to care for everyone who is in need in this world and who asks for our help. I remember that I had big problems in the past to say, “No” when I was confronted with beggars in the street or with begging letters from caritative aid agencies. I always felt guilty of sorts about being able to give and not wanting to. And I even thought that it was God who convicted me there! One day as I was on errands in the pedestrian mall in Fürth here, I was wondering about the increasing number of beggars there. Week after week there seemed to be more and more of them. And not only this, these were truly very miserable people, most of them in wheelchairs, openly showing their loss of limbs or deep scars from… I don’t know what. It was really a heartbreaking sight! As I approached a young man with only one leg who was sitting in a wheelchair, I decided to give him a bit more money than he might have expected since I felt so bad in my heart about his physical condition. Well, his reaction was strange. No reaction at all! A complete lack of feelings as it seemed to me. Nothing. Only a whispered, “Thanks” without looking at me. Hmm…
As I had left him and went into the direction where I had come from, I was still wondering what had been wrong there. I felt ‘nudged’ to turn around and look back. What I observed made me wonder even more. There would be another not so young man whom I had perceived before, too, although without giving him a closer look for he had been standing a few meters away from the one in the wheelchair. He was dressed better and obviously healthy, too. It seemed to me that the physically disabled man had given the money to this guy. A few days afterwards I would hear for the first time about a mafia-like group of foreigners from Eastern Europe who gather disabled people, convey them by bus into another country, and there into a bigger city where they attract richer people’s attention. Basically, these poor people are treated like prostitutes since they simply get a fraction of the amount of that money they passed on to their overseers.
I was so shocked to hear about this wickedness that I asked God what to do in such cases. Basically, nowadays I do not give anything to anyone any longer unless God nudges me (which very rarely happens). I recall that I passed a woman a few years ago who was sitting on the ground before a bank. A few seconds later God said to me, “Go back!” I obeyed and went back. I told her to hide the money elsewhere in her clothing, but she did as if she had not heard me. As I continued my walk, I was suddenly attacked by a German passenger who began to blame this beggar and me because of having helped her. This older woman got pretty nasty and so I prayed again about what to do. “Ignore her,” was God’s advice and so I did.
God’s leading is truly unpredictable. It seems to me that with Him we cannot have principles any longer. Our only ‘principle’ should be, “I will follow Him, follow him wherever he may go. There isn’t an ocean too deep, A mountain so high it can keep me away. I must follow HIM …” 😉
Dear Susanne,
I love that picture you took of the European Channel. You are correct in that not everyone that names the name of Christ is our brother or sister. Doing the will of our Father makes all the difference, even when we give money or aid to the needy. How many times did Jesus pass that lame man by the gate, “Beautiful,” of the temple without healing him? Yet, He knew that Peter and John would do so in the days ahead. Jesus made room for them to listen to the voice of the Spirit and heal that man when the time was right. We have to take each case to Him in prayer as to what the Lord would have us do.
How many times does God not answer our prayers the way we expect or not at the time we wish? This morning I was feeling quite lonely and started praying that Father would let me have some fellowship with one of His saints. Well, He answered my prayer in fairly short order, but not the way I though He would. I soon got an answer on a blog from a brother in South Africa that recognized me and had read our book, “The Great Ecclesiastical Conspiracy,” and expressed his gratitude for what George Davis and I shared. And so that I would not miss that it was the Lord speaking to me, a few minutes later I got an email from a brother in a Muslim country on the Black Sea who was excited and grateful about the same book and had even posted it on a book site that was readable as a PDF, HTML or even using a Kindle. He was blessed by the freedom he had found in reading it and wanted others to read it and come into the same freedom.
Thanks for sharing your insight and experience, dear sister. ⭐
Michael
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I am so happy that God heard your prayers so quickly, Michael! 🙂 Although I was sad to read that you felt lonely today. 😦
In fact, I had this example about Jesus passing the lame man on my mind, too. What a ‘coincidence’, my brother!! 😉
You are most welcome as to the sharing, dear Michael.
Every blessing,
Susanne 🐱
PS
I took that pic last Sunday on one of my prayer walks. Actually, I like that photo as well and I do not even know why… it is even a bit lopsided, isn’t?
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Michael,
I didn’t read too many articles or e-books from your Wilderness main site, but that particular one made a great impression on me a couple of years ago. It was one of the many writings God led me to so as to show me to what an extent the modern institutional church has strayed from the straight and narrow and looks more like a whore than a bride.
I am thankful to all wilderness voices God has lifted up in this last hour where great darkness covers the earth and confusion (Babel) is the lot of many Christians.
So you may consider this a third testimony, from a sister in Argentina. 🙂
Indeed the word of truth has been spread throughout the world, so that everyone with ears intent on listening has the chance to hear. We need to tune in and remove interference in our signal. The Holy Spirit is not silent.
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Carina,
Thanks for the third witness today that He gave me regarding our book and for the fellowship IN Him. It is amazing how God spreads what is His throughout the world as HE wills without our help. We have never advertised our books other than making them available for free on our website. Freely we have received and freely we give.
http://www.awildernessvoice.com/BooksInPrint.html
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Susanne,
This is also a topic that I’ve struggled with. There are many beggars in my country, especially in Buenos Aires. Many homeless people. Many children begging and being exploited by their parents. We even have people who pretend to be lame, but when their “shift” is over, they can walk perfectly. I have experienced all sorts of emotions when it comes to beggars. The urge to give something and guilt when not giving when they look really disabled, very old or sick. Anger when I see perfectly capable people forcing children who should be in school to be working. Sometimes it’s hard for me to not react in the flesh. I admit sometimes I look the other way, because it hurts to see people in such a condition.
On the passage you mentioned, I was thinking how it can be misinterpreted (like anything in the Bible!) by religion to advocate a “social gospel”. The gospel of “good works”. Atheists have used this passage to say what matters is to be a good person who helps others. So what you’ve said in the end is crucial (BTW, you brought a smile on my face thinking of Whoopi Goldberg singing and dancing in the convent). What matters is to follow Him. All the rest is dead works of a dirty conscience trying to earn its way to salvation or rewards. Matthew 7 comes to mind.
What springs from the well of the Holy Spirit, is spirit. What springs from the flesh, is flesh, and is just fig leaves on a fruitless tree.
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Carina, I can sooo relate to your deliberations on different kinds of beggars! Of course, there are beggars who pretend, too. Also, some parents from foreign countries tell their kids to steal in the stores here because they think the kids cannot be blamed/punished. It is very sad, indeed!
I thought about this picture of Whoopi singing and dancing in the cathedral as well and about the singing and dancing nuns around… Glad it made you smile, my sister! XD
Here is the link for all who want to enjoy this short music video taken from the film “Sister Act”. Its length is only 3:33… 😉
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We’re really kindred spirits, because after you mentioned the lines from that song, I immediately HAD TO see the same video in YouTube. 🙂 🙂 🙂
Love you so much, my sister!
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That is NO coincidence, indeed!!! I am still sitting here, weeping, because afterwards I watched Oh Happy Day” from “Sister Act part 2”. Sigh…
I love you very much, Carina. ❤ ❤ ❤
Your sister in Him,
Susanne 🙂
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Susanne, I looked up the original version of “Oh Happy Day” on YouTube by the Edmond Hawkins Singers after you mentioned it above. I also wept because I first heard it right after Jesus washed all my sins away in 1970 and that song was a world wide hit back then and it still means so much to me, dear heart.
Here they are again in a later performance:
Thank you so much for sharing this memory and for the tears with me.
Michael ❤
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You’re very welcome, my dear brother. ♡ 🤗 ♡
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Susanne, I had never seen Sister Act or Sister Act 2 until a few years back. I loved them both! Though I’ve never had any connection or interaction with the Catholic church, but related to Whoopi’s character very much.
And I was about to ask Michael for the link to that book, but see he added it. Thank you. I’ll be looking into it.
In keeping with the original post, though, I have experienced the very same emotions with regards to the beggers here in Denver. And following His lead is not the same as our emotions. Oh how hard a lesson I have and am learning in that area. So much of my life, even in recent years, was more about emotions than wisdom. In this Thanksgiving day I am thankful for His patience with me, and His willingness to bring me this far.
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Becky, I never saw Sister Act, but I loved the songs and Whoopi, of course. 😉
Regarding beggars you wrote, “And following His lead is not the same as our emotions.” Very good observation! Always these problems with discerning what came from the soul and what came from HIS Spirit! 😛
I hope you have enjoyed Thanksgiving Day so far (already 8 pm in Germany here and NO Thanksgiving… 😉 ).
Happy Thanksgiving Day
Love,
Susanne ❤
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Amen! I have been in those situations myself. Many times God has said, no not that one. Other times he has told me to be kind to people I can hardly stand. That can be very challenging, too. I’ve had to accept that other people’s salvation is entirely between them and God and that I can’t always see it. There are “Christian” goats. There are also people who look like goat, but God sees something in them I cannot, and in the end they will be his. Those are tough lessons to learn and they require a great deal of trust and surrender to the Lord’s wisdom. I have an indomitable spirit of fairness, but that betrays a tendency to believe God needs my help, as if he might get it wrong or something. I try to remember as much as I love people, God loves them even more, so he can be fully trusted to separate goats and sheep. Lol, without my help.:-)
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Amen to your comment, Gabrielle. Yes, HE does not need our help. Alas… 😉
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I was planning to say something along those lines, and then forgot.
I was thinking of Saul of Tarsus, the most unlikely convert you can imagine. So unlikely that when he converted many believers distrusted his conversion and it took time for him to be accepted as a true brother. I believe we have no right to think such and such person is beyond God’s grace, because we don’t know how that person’s life will play out in the end. Who knows if that person we think is too hardened against the Gospel will be like the thief on the cross, who was blaspheming like the other thief according to one of the Gospels, but then the Holy Spirit touched his heart and perhaps minutes before his death, he was beyond doubt saved?
We recently experienced a family tragedy. One of my cousins, my uncle’s first born, committed suicide. While all the external signs show an unconverted soul who is likely to have hell as eternal destination, the truth is we don’t know. His mother was once an evangelical Christian. His brother was a Jehovah’s witness. I did talk to him and bring him some Gospel truth before his death. It’s possible, though I can’t stake my life on it, that a minute before his death the truth of God’s love became patent to him, and that he repented and was saved.
What I know from the Scriptures is that if the “Christians” we encounter are IN THE PRESENT walking in blatant unrighteousness, we cannot fellowship with them. We cannot overlook or minimize their sin. And I believe some sins are more serious than others. If there’s one thing God hates it is religious hypocrisy, judgmentalism and self-righteousness, an unmerciful spirit and also a covetous spirit with a what’s-in-it-for-me, entitlement mentality attitude to the Gospel.
And it’s no coincidence that a couple of days ago, we were discussing with my husband a passage on this very thing:
2 Timothy 3:1-5
But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!
From Paul’s “having a form of godliness” and the next lines about long prayers, I gather that the apostle was talking about religious people. It’s an uncanny X-ray of far too many people among us!
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Yes, amen! I too often think of the Apostle Paul compared to the religious leaders of the day. I sometimes quip, “Who are God’s chosen people?” Murderers, thieves, prostitutes and tax collectors. 🙂
I try to treat everyone as the potential beloved of Christ because we just don’t know what lurks ahead, BUT that doesn’t mean I hand them any authority.
I’m so sorry for the family tragedy. That is so heartbreaking. It can be hard to trust in the Lord in those situations, but the truth is we really don’t know what someone might experience in those last moments. All I know is that we can turn those we love over to the Lord, especially non believers, and trust that He will handle it more perfectly than we ever could.
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That paragraph about people getting poor people to get money off of people does not surprise me. I know I have run into so called charity’s around here were the money hardly goes to the needy. I had donated to one for many years and so did a lot of people and found out that almost all if not all goes to the owner of the company and not to helping people. They make money only on donations and the owner is rich. This is also one reason I don’t donate.
Any way not related to your article but on my mind any way. Lately I have been seeking GOD a lot more yet I feel so far from him. I don’t know why. I want to be with him so bad and don’t want to be in this world any more as it keeps getting harder and harder be here. I just want GOD and to please him and do his will. I feel guilty more then I feel at peace. I don’t dear trust my flesh for anything. Am I making any since?
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Fred, yes, I think your words make sense to me. It is very hard to seek God and to seemingly not find/feel Him at all. However, the reason is that whenever our inner darkness is confronted with His light, we get somehow blinded and are not aware of His presence. It needs a long time to slowly get acquainted with God’s Holy Presence and this tiring process can be a real strain, aka as wilderness. BUT the fact that you sought God more than before shows that He has been drawing you closer to Himself since no human being begins on its own to be interested in God. This has been the Holy Spirit working in you. Please, don’t give up, my brother! Praying for you!!!
Btw, depression can be the reason, too, when you can’t perceive good feelings anymore. Just a thought…
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I have gotten depressed on and off but still can have good thoughts. Thanks You brought a lot of hope to me.
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I will keep praying that God might lift you up, Fred. Glad you have hope again!
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I know part of the reason I feel depressed is because I feel I don’t measure up to what GOD expects of his people. I read or listen to the old testament and think am I any better then these people, umm no. I pray for mercy a lot. Specially when I can not even control my own thoughts and a thought pops up that I feel displeases GOD. That is where a lot of the depression stems from.
Also I have no idea if I am allowed to go to a bible study tomorrow. I know the guy who does it does use a lot of Austin sparks teachings and some of the stuff is in agreement with both you and Michael but not all. Last week he gave us a home work assignment having us seek out what GOD’s will is for our lives. I seek that a lot, one prayer I have had is to take away my will and let me only do the will of GOD. Maybe different words in the prayer though. Any way the assignment went farther and had us do something I feel would be testing the Lord so I didn’t do it. It was something to the effect of pray to be fed and don’t buy any thing and let GOD just give you food some way. Examples were mentioned. Like one example being where the guy went 3 days with out eating and some one just gave him 20 for a meal. another example was he was working out side and some ladies had an extra meal and gave it to him.
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Hmm…
Who can allow you or forbid you to go to a Bible study? If you think you need to go, why not. There is no law. We learn from our experiences, even and especially from the bad ones, too. That does not mean a Bible study is basically a bad thing. It depends on the one who teaches, whether he or she has His anointing or not. Nonetheless, I doubt whether someone who is Spirit-led can offer Bible studies on a regular basis since God’s leading can NEVER be predicted. Just my two cents…
Furthermore, God will never take your will and “force” you to do His instead. We are no robots but have a free choice to submit our will to His although God might nudge, or even “urge” us to do something in these times when we or others are in danger.
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I guess I was thinking if he is teaching something wrong it might displease GOD and he would not want me to go. Basically want to know if he allows it or not.
Any way thanks.
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You’re welcome, Fred. If you detect something wrong in a teaching, God might have sharpened your discerners. 😉
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Fred, I’d like to share my testimony because you may relate. My last bout of depression and spiritual darkness was so serious that I totally despaired of ever coming back to God again.
I looked at my own heart, and saw it so hardened that I thought, this old self keeps resisting the Holy Spirit, I either seem to love sin too much, or am too apathetic to really want to change. I looked at Jesus and felt none of the old warmth towards Him. The Bible was a closed book. Prayer was an exercise in futility. I felt the Heavens were completely closed and all I could hear was God’s silence. A silence that sounded ominous. I felt surely I must have been discarded by God, after so many backslidings, so many little compromises.
God brought me to that state of utter despair, because He wanted to show me my hope is IN HIM! And Him alone! Not any inherent goodness I may have. I know the darkness of my own heart, and I can confess like Paul that in me, that is, in my flesh, NOTHING good dwells!
God allowed me to descend to the depths of my own abyss in order to unroot pride. Not that the work is complete, but the last lesson really sunk in!
But where sin abounded… grace abounded all the more. At the right moment, the dam that was preventing God’s river to flow in me broke… and God’s refreshing waters came in a rush!
Believe me, brother, if God could restore ME (a most wretched, rebellious, self-willed and proud individual who was NOT a good person by any standards), He can restore you! And when He does, you won’t be exactly where you were before, but even higher. All things work together for our good. We are being conformed to the image of Christ. Sometimes it takes nights of feeling abandoned by God. Hey, if the perfectly righteous Son experienced it, shouldn’t we expect to feel the same sometimes? But faith was given to us to rise above our feelings. 🙂
May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.
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You have all spoken very wisely. I have a few practical suggestions. These do not cover every situation. They are, of course, subject to God’s direction, in a specific instance. However, I believe them to be biblical.
First and foremost, DO NOT APPROACH ANYONE WHO LOOKS DANGEROUS. THIS INCLUDES INDIVIDUALS CARRYING A WEAPON (STICK, CLUB, KNIFE OR GUN), ARGUING LOUDLY AND/OR GESTICULATING WILDLY, OR MAKING THE HAIR ON THE BACK OF YOUR NECK STAND ON END. GOD GAVE US DISCERNMENT SO WE MIGHT USE IT.
A substantial number of the homeless have mental health issues. People off their meds can lash out for no reason. That you have not approached a dangerous looking individual does not mean you cannot pray for that man or woman.
Second, do not give to a homeless man or woman wearing expensive sportswear, sneakers, or jewelry. This can be a strong clue that the individual is not actually in need. The clothing and shoes usually donated or discarded are not likely to be new looking branded merchandise costing hundreds.
Third, do not, as a general rule, give money. Give food and attention instead. Ask the homeless person whether he/she is hungry. If so, go buy a sandwich and bring it back. If the person declines an offer of food, just ask how the person’s day is going. Be sure and look him or her in the eye. If the person is truly in need, your time and attention will be as much a gift as the food. If not, God will be pleased w/ your intention, anyway.
Some wonderful people regularly distribute their own homemade sandwiches to the homeless. There are now laws in certain places which prohibit this. Most of these are based on food safety. You should be sure to educate yourself about the law in your locale, then make a prayerful decision about what to do.
Not everyone will be called by God to engage in civil disobedience. You can phone or write your local representatives, mayor, etc. to seek a change in the law and/or to complain about the plight of the homeless. You may be able to volunteer w/ a charitable organization exempted from the law. You may want to take part in a lawful peaceful protest. Alternatively, you may be able to distribute blankets or bottled water.
Fourth, gather information about resources for the homeless in your locale. Go online. Are there shelters? Are there food kitchens? Are there missions? Are there thrift shops? Where is the nearest Salvation Army? Make a list of these resources w/ contact information and directions, then keep several copies of the list w/ you, as you travel around your town or city on an average day. You’ll be surprised how many opportunities arise for you to distribute the list to homeless individuals.
Just my two cents. Sorry to be so long winded. I carry my soapbox around w/ me.
Loads of love,
A. ❤
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Very good suggestions, dear Anna. ❤ Thank you so much for sharing them with us on here!
Loads of love to you too! 🙂
Susanne ❤
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I wonder if it is still illegal to feed the homeless in some states like Florida. I know of one homeless shelter about an hour from here but it is just for men.
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We have homeless shelters and soup kitchens here in Germany. But illegal in Florida? Hmm… No idea, Fred.
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Ditto, Anna! 🙂
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Fred,
Florida? I thought you were in Iowa. 😛
I think that all these law pertaining to such things are by individual municipalities, not states.
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I am in Iowa. I did word that a bit funny didn’t I. I know florida a man got arrested for feeding the homeless. I don’t think that is a law here in Iowa or if it is still a law there.
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