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death, eternal life, experience, good works, grace, life after death, Life and Death, Martin Luther, Nicky Gumbel, Pippa Gumbel, salvation, true faith, truth
When time as we know it comes to an end, eternity in Christ begins.
(Picture taken from http://riverbankoftruth.com/)
Just lately I felt concerned about those who are grieved because they do not know whether their loved ones will be saved or not. Even looking closely at other people, we sometimes perceive no outward sign of faith in Jesus Christ. BUT that does not mean that they won’t be saved!
Martha said to Jesus, “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died. But even now I know that whatever you ask from God, God will give you.” Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.” Martha said to him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.” Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?” She said to him, “Yes, Lord; I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, who is coming into the world.” (Jn 11:21-27 ESV)
One might argue here that Lazarus must have been a believer since he would have a close relationship with Jesus just like his sisters. Belief in Jesus Christ is the biblical ticket to eternal life for “whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.” (Jn 3:36 ESV) Believing in Christ and obedience to His leading go hand in hand since faith without works is dead (cf. Js 2:17,26). That may not be misunderstood as it has often been the case in churches that Christians begin to do good works in order to prove (God and others) that they indeed have faith. Dear brothers and sisters, this is one of the big deceptions! Just now I am not sure how I got on this side-track regarding faith and works, but once again, I dare to re-post for the third time a part of Martin Luther’s commentary on Romans 8 where he expounds on the importance and implications of true faith received by God. Luther said,
“Faith is a work of God in us, which changes us and brings us to birth anew from God (cf. John 1). It kills the old Adam, makes us completely different people in heart, mind, senses, and all our powers, and brings the Holy Spirit with it. What a living, creative, active powerful thing is faith! It is impossible that faith ever stop doing good. Faith doesn’t ask whether good works are to be done, but, before it is asked, it has done them. It is always active. Whoever doesn’t do such works is without faith; he gropes and searches about him for faith and good works but doesn’t know what faith or good works are. Even so, he chatters on with a great many words about faith and good works.
Faith is a living, unshakeable confidence in God’s grace; it is so certain, that someone would die a thousand times for it. This kind of trust in and knowledge of God’s grace makes a person joyful, confident, and happy with regard to God and all creatures. This is what the Holy Spirit does by faith. Through faith, a person will do good to everyone without coercion, willingly and happily; he will serve everyone, suffer everything for the love and praise of God, who has shown him such grace. It is as impossible to separate works from faith as burning and shining from fire. Therefore be on guard against your own false ideas and against the chatterers who think they are clever enough to make judgements about faith and good works but who are in reality the biggest fools. Ask God to work faith in you; otherwise you will remain eternally without faith, no matter what you try to do or fabricate.
(Martin Luther’s Bible Commentary, “Vorrede auf die Epistel St. Paul an die Römer”)
It seems to me that before we can judge whether others have true faith or not, we could also look at ourselves, wondering whether there might be missing something, still. Of course, we should not KEEP looking at our miserable old nature which never produces anything which is good in God’s sight. Instead, we should try to refocus on the One who alone can give us and everyone else (!) THIS faith without which we remain stuck in this world’s pulls and the up and down of our circumstances.
So, here we are again, looking at our loved ones and friends, wondering where they stand in matters of faith. Or even worse, they already died and we do not know the answer as to their eternal destiny. Brothers and sisters, there is only one human being who can answer this question by giving us faith into our hearts, a hope that cannot be shaken by anyone any longer. I have had this issue on my mind and heart for years now, bound up with the desire to offer comfort to those who have been tormented by their doubts for a long time.
Just yesterday I could enjoy a wonderful quiet time with God in the afternoon. It was partly sunny and quite warm. I was swimming all alone (what a blessing!) in an outdoor pool on my back, watching the clouds, the birds, and one or two airplanes that were flying way above me. I felt I had to ask God, again and again, about this issue regarding the destiny of those who seemingly died without what we have learned to call Christian faith. It was clear to me that I would never touch on a such a sensitive topic unless God gave me a revelation which was biblically watertight, too. Well, God’s words are not always that clear right at the outset. Although I am sure that He spoke to me yesterday, even two times. As I had asked Him repeatedly for a revelation, I heard Jesus say, “I AM the Resurrection.” I knew it was Him, but it made me wonder what He meant…
Before going to bed I began to write this post until I reached that point where I mentioned the big deception. I felt I had to stop there and spent some time praying in the bathroom. Again and again, I asked God to reveal more to me if He wanted me to write about these things. Standing in front of the mirror, looking at my own face, I suddenly heard Him say, “You need to see it from the other side.” Ha! That was plausible to me immediately, but… how can we see this whole topic of resurrection from God’s perspective, from a ‘life-after-death-perspective’, or from a mere eternal-life-perspective? I have no answer to these things yet and thus I am sitting here in front of the computer, waiting on God…
What I got just now was that from God’s sight, it is not important whether our bodies are still alive or not since Paul told us, “But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.” (Rom 8:10-11 ESV) God sees our bodies as dead, whether we are physically alive on this earth or if we already died, even regardless of faith in Him. We know that Jesus told the woman at the well, “God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” (Jn 4:24 ESV) Is what we call spirit confined to a physical realm where everything can be perceived with our natural senses? Quite the contrary, the spiritual realm can only be perceived with spiritual senses. Faith is the gift of God that transcends the physical realm and connects us through God in Christ with what we can NOT see with our natural senses.
Just now God reminded me of a testimony by Nicky Gumbel, an Anglican priest in London who shared the following story on TV. His father was a German Jew who did not convert to Christianity like his wife and son did. According to Nicky Gumbel, he died a believing Jew. After his death, Nicky was grieved a lot. He could not get rid of this question as to whether his dad might have been saved or not. One day as he was sitting in his office, his wife Pippa came in and pointed a Scripture out to him which God had shown her. It was this one.
“And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” (Joel 2:32 ESV)
At first, Nicky Gumbel felt relieved, yet he still doubted. Shortly afterwards he and his wife attended a weekend seminar which was quite surprising for him. Unexpectedly, the Bible studies dealt with the verse, ““And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” (Joel 2:32 ESV) Once again, although this occurrence pierced him to the heart, doubts kept bothering him soon. As Nicky was walking through London later, he could not have been more surprised as he was, reading an eye-catching ‘advertisement’ on a bus that was just passing him by. In big letters, you could read, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved!”
Nicky had to admit that it would be a big struggle for him to really trust God here. Seeking help, he visited a friend and shared his experiences with him. His friend only said, “Could it be that God wanted to tell you something?”
Brothers and sisters, it seems to me that our faith can also waver because of the wrong things we have been taught, wrong expositions of the Bible in particular. Sometimes those who know the most about the Bible have the greatest difficulties to really trust in God. The reason might be that our modern, left-brained and predominantly intellectual society, including Christian tradition, has unlearnt how to trust in God’s small and subtle voice. God is not interested in sending people to hell although that will happen one day when people at the Final Judgment openly reject the One who bore their sins. But we can only reject someone of whom we have already heard, right? Apostle Peter provided an indication as he said,
“For this is why the gospel was preached even to those who are dead, that though judged in the flesh the way people are, they might live in the spirit the way God does.” (1 Pt 4:6 ESV)
If God allows, I might expound on this last verse I just added and some others in the days ahead.
Wonderful and thank you, Susanne.
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You’re very welcome, David. Thanks for the encouragement!
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My dearest sister,
It would seem the Lord brought you this post especially for me! I cannot thank Him enough for giving you such words of comfort. And it seems the Lord indeed wants to use you to bring peace to my troubled mind regarding my suicidal cousin.
The testimony you mention is particularly touching because that same verse from Scripture kept coming to mind when I heard the news of my cousin’s tragic decision.
Another very strange thing that happened to me is that at the funeral service I had a very odd sense of joy and peace, very out of place in the circumstances but the Lord was clearly giving me His fire and His conviction, “See what I’m going to do with your family.” I saw my uncle, who was a very self-confident, self-sufficient person who’d previously rejected the Gospel because he felt no need for God and no desire to change his life, broken and needy. At one moment he begged us with these words, “I know God listens to you. Please pray for my son’s soul.” Though I don’t believe we should be praying for dead souls, I took that as a sign that God was breaking his heart in order to repair it. We also witnessed a lot to my other two cousins. One of them was a Jehovah’s Witness before, but has stopped attending services because of his wife’s social phobias. I saw evidence that grace is at work in him, you sense it when someone is not far from God’s kingdom and is a true seeker.
Coming back home, I again experienced a supernatural joy and faith in what God is doing. That night, I turned on my computer and began listening to praise songs and singing them. Songs about God as King. Cheerful songs about how God is in control of everything. So either I was in total denial and delusion, or God was through these emotions was witnessing to my soul that my cousin (and the rest of the family) are going to be ok.
The “explanation” we received from Scripture and from circumstances and we believe was from God was, What if I allowed your cousin to cut his veins, gave him repentance at the very last moment like the thief on the cross to snatch him from hell, but still allowed his death because that was the ONLY way to get your whole family to bow their knees?
The other thing I would like to say is, a lot of the theological points you mention may cause people to raise their eyebrows in alarm… but what if? What if some of what we’ve been taught about judgment and condemnation in eternal hell was not exactly right? What if, to the truths God expressed in Scripture, the devil added the leaven of error and heresy by means of faulty translations and even faultier interpretations?
I am a translator myself and know it can be hard to translate objectively without any bias, especially if the text you are translating is hard to understand. When you are not sure what a word or sentence mean, you guess, using context and your previous knowledge. Previous “knowledge” is dangerous, because if it is faulty, you will introduce your personal beliefs to the Holy Scriptures! We would expect the Bible translators to pray A LOT and have great integrity to ONLY state exactly what the original text said. Sadly, in some patent cases such as the Jehovah’s witness “translation” the text has been perverted to fit an agenda, but it may have happened in our “good” translations as well, even without an intention from the translators.
Jeremiah 8:8 “How can you say, ‘We are wise, And the law of the Lord is with us’?
But behold, the lying pen of the scribes Has made it into a lie.
So could it be that our understanding of “eternal hell” has been shaped by human traditions and misconceptions (the concepts of hell from other pagan cultures, for instance), and “immortalized” in twisted translations of the original meanings?
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My dearest Carina,
I was sooo happy to read your reply to me!!! ❤ Indeed, you had been on my mind all the time until I got this post published. It seems your remark about your personal tragedy was the ‘trigger’ God used to make me aware of things I had not seen that clearly beforehand although I for one had faith regarding my loved ones and friends who had died (seemingly) without ‘faith’. That includes my son David after whose death through a miscarriage I got a personal revelation by Jesus (if you like, see https://enteringthepromisedland.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/true-fellowship-knows-no-death/)
My cousin died when we both were 26. He died in a strange accident… Afterwards I had a similar experience you had at his funeral. And not only me, some other ppl/relatives had watched a butterfly flying around in the church. The sun came out and finally the butterfly disappeared toward heaven (the sky). The supernatural joy I felt back then lasted for a long time, too…. and I felt it again at other funerals of ‘non-believers’.
God is good and God is great! Much greater than we might imagine right now. And He alone knows the hearts of men… It is only our continued relationship and our experiences with God which produce this faith that knows no doubts, this childlike, perfect trust in His wonderful providence.
You raised many questions, Carina, which is a good thing. Don’t stop asking Him! Take care, my sister.
Much love to you,
Susanne
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Yes, Carina, I know from my own research that the all hallowed “Authorized Version” or KJV was tampered with by the translators under the orders of the king and that each of the following newer translations were written with sell-ability in mind. You can not get the faithful to buy a translation when their denominations are against how it comes out. When money and furthering the power of institutions over the people are factored in, besides prejudice of the translators, we start to see why Jesus sent the Comforter to lead us into ALL truth, not a leather bound, gilded edge book translated by men with great and glowing titles and degrees from human institutions.
BTW, the Spirit IS called the Comforter by Jesus! I am so glad that He has comforted you and Susanne in this matter of those whom you know who have died regarding God’s ability to save them.
Love you in Christ,
Michael
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Susanne, as I read your post once again after a good night’s sleep, it seems to me that we as humans struggle with this thing called “time” and that God does not. I looked at this struggle that Martha was having in her conversation with Jesus about Lazarus once again,
The problem with death in our human perspective is that it is a definite marker in time, but maybe not so with God who is timeless and dwells in the infinity of heaven. First Jesus says about Lazarus who died, “He sleeps.” In your quote we see this struggle Martha was having with time regarding death. She said, “Lord, if you had come when we bid you, he need not had to die.” to which Jesus answered,
“I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
Do you see the timelessness of Christ’s death and resurrection here? He is the I AM not the I was or I will be, and He even spoke of His resurrection as an accomplished fact though He had not gone to the cross here on earth as of yet. Jesus, God’s Lamb, was crucified from the foundation of the world (See Rev. 13:8) and those of us who are His were in Him then and nothing can change that. He is our death, our resurrection and our life.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. (Eph 1:3-6, ESV2011)
God will do what He has to do when it comes to the details in our lives to make this a reality in our thinking for it is already a reality in His.
As to who will be saved that is HIS business, not ours. And I am at peace with that, knowing “in Whom I believe in and am persuaded that He will keep that which I have committed to Him against that day.”
Thank you for being brave enough to share your thoughts and revelations on this matter, dear Susanne.
Michael
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Ha! I really saw and felt (!) “the timelessness of Christ’s death and resurrection” in the way you described it in your comment, Michael! That truly hit me! Indeed, God used it to give me more faith right now!!! Wooohoooooo!!!! Thank You, Daddy in Heaven, and thank you, my brother, for having been His instrument! XD
As for me being brave, well, not really. Only if I trust in Him Who is my only strength… 😉
Much love,
Susanne ❤
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Susanne, my dearest friend in Christ,
As I tried to read your new blog last night I felt this attack from the devil hit me with all manner of confusion, so I decided to set it aside and pray and read it again this morning, knowing that God is NOT the author of confusion. As I read it again after praying all the confusion was gone and the Spirit spoke to me as you felt it in my reply which I wrote above. You felt the same wonderful confirmation in your heart that I did, dear sister, and THAT is a real blessing to me. ONE, we CAN truly be ONE IN Christ. YES! Our Jesus is IN the Father and we are IN HIM and that makes that verse I quoted from Ephesians and many others come alive, doesn’t it? I am not against the Bible, but I am FOR the Holy Spirit and His ability to lead us into ALL truth which is found in Jesus Christ who IS the Way, the Truth and the Life.
“…Even as he chose us IN HIM before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons [and daughters] through Jesus Christ…”
Holy hugs to you, dear heart!
Michael
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Dear Michael,
I was so sorry to hear that Satan got you confused as you tried to read this blog, my dear brother. 😦
Indeed, from God’s perspective all seems to have been done and finished, even before we came into this world (physically). Your example with Martha’s limited sight stands for our old nature’s perception, I believe. His body is dead, therefore we conclude Lazarus must be dead, too. Our narrow view that trusts on our natural senses collides with the endless perspective of the One Who is God and lives in timeless eternity. Jesus SAW the invisible realm since He only did what He saw His Father doing! There are no physical limitations any longer! And the New Creation which is (IN) Christ sees the body as sleeping only.
I cannot describe right now which kind of revelation that has been for me, but somehow this timelessness got part of my own spirit and brought forth faith, hope, and more trust in God. Thank you sooo much, once again, Michael! 🙂
Holy hugs back!
Susanne 🐱
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Susanne,
Thanks for your kind reply. I am blessed that we were both hit by this indescribable revelation at the same time about how God’s timelessness fits in with the work of Christ being crucified from the foundation of the world for us. May He continue to bring forth more faith hope and trust IN Him in the days ahead and an ever sweeter fellowship IN our Father and His Son. Amen.
Michael 🐻
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You are most welcome, Michael. It seems to me we have had a ‘Revelation Day’ today. What a divine blessing from our Daddy in Heaven!
Amen to your wonderful prayer, my brother! 🙂
In His love,
Susanne 🐱
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Michael,
I was grieved to read that you were attacked spiritually with confusion. I hope my questions didn’t “help” the spirits that came against you.
I believe the Holy Spirit wants me to interject a comment here.
Since God convinced me that Jesus is the Truth, and He is the one and only God as revealed in Deuteronomy 6, I have always believed in the inerrancy and God-inspired status of the Bible. 2 Peter says, “And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.”
This matches the witness about Scripture found in Psalms 19 and 119, among many other places.
My queries (they were no more than that) were about translations… because men were responsible for the translations, and the translations as you well stated had and still have agendas.
Having said that, I have two print versions of the Bible in Spanish, two full versions and one parallel NT with four versions in English that were gifts from a sister, and one version in Portuguese, and visit biblegateway.com about 100 times per day, where I read versions I don’t have on paper. I love comparing verses in different versions because I can get a wider view of what God is saying, and I fully trust the Holy Spirit’s help to detect any minute error in the translations (and He is great at doing that!). I (hopefully) always read the Scriptures in prayer and worship, hungry-for-Jesus mode, not in let’s-get-head-knowledge mode.
I believe the Scriptures are the law of God and the written revelation of God… pointing to the eternal Word of God that co-created everything with the Father and the Holy Spirit. If the Bible is a huge treasure of knowledge, Jesus is an even wider treasure, because all the testimony of Scripture is about Him!
My favorite Gospel is John’s, because it’s where we get the most important declarations about who Christ IS (the others tell a lot about what He does, but this is the best at representing His nature). How does John end his Gospel? “And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.”
Ever thought of that? Yes, “the law of the Lord is perfect”… but if we began to write about the greatness of God… we could have an infinite Bible speaking His praises. And indeed, we’ll spend eternity getting to know more and more of His amazing, infinite lovingkindness and glorious grace.
Oops… long comment again. God still needs to help me in summarizing skills.
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Carina, I DO believe that the original words of God recorded in the original scriptures were inspired. Peter puts it in perspective, “knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.” He did not say, “for interpretations of prophecy that came from holy men came by holy men interpreting them.” I am afraid that you will find that less than one percent of those who have “translated” the scriptures were Spirit filled men and women. This is why Jesus said we need the Holy Spirit and not just our minds to lead us into all truth.
THIS IS WHAT REVELATION IS!!! Without it we are groping in the dark no matter how well we understand Greek and Hebrew our how vast our knowledge of the Bible is..
He constantly alerts me to words in the scriptures that were not interpreted correctly. One of the worst violations was where they missed the depth of meaning in the preposition “ies” even in John 3:16! We do not “believe in” or “believe upon” Jesus Christ. The translators constantly missed the intimacy of what Jesus was saying with a few exceptions. We believe INTO Christ. Our salvation is based upon spiritual intimacy, not mental knowledge of spiritual things. When we have believed INTO Christ He comes INTO us with His Spirit and it is then that we will see the light of His revelation working in us in the most intimate relationship, not just our thoughts in our natural man. Discerning the difference is where we need help and a deep working of the cross putting that mind of the flesh to death.
You wrote, “If the Bible is a huge treasure of knowledge, Jesus is an even wider treasure, because all the testimony of Scripture is about Him!”
Well said. Even this very “treasure of knowledge” speaks of Jesus as that treasure (see Col. 2:1-4). It goes on to say:
The law and the prophets were given us to point us to Christ, the problem is that most who read them stop at the sign that is doing the pointing and worship there and don’t proceed down the road to the destination it speaks of. Or in Jesus’ words to the biblical scholars and scribes (Bible translators) of that day reveal:
For further reading on this subject…
http://www.austin-sparks.net/english/books/003697.html
Michael
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Michael,
WOW! Now I’m sort of frustrated I’ve given up on my 2004 plans to learn Biblical Hebrew and Greek to read the Bible in its original languages and not depend on such faulty translations. Though the Holy Spirit has brought me to the Strong’s concordance more than once and I’ve found amazing truths such as the “believe into” you mention.
One key I learned during literary translation classes is that when an author uses a deliberately strange style (such as very long sentences) or words and connections between words are “innovative” you don’t do justice to the author if you “normalize” the style. You may (sort of) convey the “informational” meaning by doing that, but you lose a lot of richness of expression and sometimes totally destroy the writers’ purpose (and the many layers of meaning the author displayed in the original). Sometimes translators make an idol of “sounding natural” in the target language. Seeking clarity and “readability” MAY be acceptable if you’re translating Faulkner, but it’s definitely very wrong if you’re translating God!
I totally agree about devotion to Jesus being the whole point of reading the Bible. When we worship our “concepts” (even if they’re biblical) and the “knowledge” we’ve acquired more than we worship Jesus, we have a huge idolatry problem!
Hence, Paul’s warning to Timothy to avoid the irreverent babble and contradictions of what is falsely called “knowledge”.
You’ve also hit a nerve here, because I’m acutely aware that it’s this very “intellectualism” that ensnared me most of my life. I was blessed with a very bright mind from birth, and my parents noticed early and started calling me a genius, and displaying me everywhere like a circus animal. By the time I entered first grade, my boundless curiosity had led me to learn to read just by watching my older brother and sister playing with letters, with no one having taught me or giving me “stimulation” as is done now. At that time NO literacy was taught in preschools in my country. But I was such a sponge for knowledge and learning things was so easy for me (in fact my English teacher when I was 8 had a private conversation with my mum after a few classes at level 0, and told her… I don’t know how this is possible, but your daughter thinks in English!) that I thought I was the next Einstein. 😉
Fast-forward a few years and a million stripes…
I know and confess with Paul that everything I thought I was, and everything I valued, I count as dung compared with the intimate knowledge of Christ. I cry in prayer that if I should understand all prophecies and have all knowledge of all the right doctrines, if I have no love, I am worthless! Yes, I got that part, and reject any ideas that “accumulating knowledge” has any bearing on “learning truth”. I learned wisdom as God told me to fear Him, and some of the lessons have been excruciatingly painful, so much so that I thought, “How can a God who loves me allow this? He must not love me at all! I must be a child of Satan as I have always suspected!”
Still I wonder… Why would God give me a “gifted” intellect if I’m supposed to throw it ALL down the drain and discard ALL that God gave me as a gift just because it was part of the “natural” me? I’ve read the T. Austin Sparks and it was helpful, but I’m not quite getting this.
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Carina,
To answer your question, that which falls into the ground and dies is not the same thing that springs forth.
“But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual. The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven.” (1Cor 15:46-49, ESV2011)
The fact that you are still struggling with laying down your “naturally brilliant mind” shows that He has more to do in you. Neither God nor you need your intellect to abide in HIS kingdom and do HIS work. We only need the mind of Christ. “Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus…” The cross is brutal! No one comes down off of it alive. But our resurrection IN HIM makes it all worth the suffering we go through to get there.
Michael
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My dearest brother,
The cross is working and I’m experiencing that death daily, more deeply than ever before. I decided to leave my blog aside for the time being, because I don’t want to interfere with that process by “doing” too much. In fact, I’m not communicating even 10% if the things my husband and I are receiving during prayer time. It’s very intense fire, and it’s a 2 Corinthians 4 experience.
7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellence of the power may be of God and not of us. 8 We are hard-pressed on every side, yet not crushed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; 9 persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed— 10 always carrying about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body. 11 For we who live are always delivered to death for Jesus’ sake, that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh. 12 So then death is working in us, but life in you.
You’re right. Sometimes I ask too many questions and am too impatient for answers. But today I sort of got an answer that God is in a sense going to use my intellect, but it’s not going to look like my intellect at all. It will be a sort of Isaac resurrection experience. My role is to lay it ALL down, and that’s how we’re praying every day and my heart’s meditation.
I would like to share a prayer request with you. It seems that we’ve been “expelled” again from the systems of man’s understanding of church. Not expelled in the sense of “Don’t come back!” but more like a rejection and distrust of the house church leader towards us. Today we told him we weren’t “attending” on Sunday and got a series of verses to get us to toe the line, including Hebrews 10:25, of course!
While we were talking about how to respond to the text messages, our 7-year-old son told us we had to read Ezekiel 2 (Ezekiel’s calling) and the last page in Exodus (which talks about God’s glory filling the Tabernacle so much so that the Israelites couldn’t get in).
We went to buy a present for a birthday. I decided to go to a shop where the shop owner is a Christian and has a Bible on her counter. My son began to turn the pages of the Bible and at one point told the woman that a page was missing. It was the end of Isaiah and the first page in Jeremiah (Jeremiah’s calling). Then he went to the beginning of the book of Isaiah, and told the woman Isaiah 1. Isaiah 1 is a description of much of the current day institutional church.
It seems to me Samuel Bautista was born to be a prophet after all. And it was beautiful that God once again proved that he uses the little to confound the big.
Psalm 8:2 Out of the mouth of babes and nursing infants You have ordained strength, Because of Your enemies, That You may silence the enemy and the avenger.
As a human being, I’m still heart-broken, because this is people we love dearly and until now, they had really been a great blessing. But I’d been warning my husband against trusting men too much. I kept telling him no man is infallible, and we’d been noticing a few things, but what happened on Sunday (I’ll share the details later) was a clear attack from a religious, legalistic spirit. 😦
So please pray that we’ll get clear direction from God about what to do. So far, God’s instructions according to Ezekiel 2 and 3 and Ecclesiastes 3:1-9, is to be “dumb prophets”.
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Carina, I am not surprised at the path you are on and this latest turn that it took with this fellowship leader. Sometimes God just wants us to come out of it all and unplug from religion so He can reset us with only His Spirit’s words as our reference point. I found that going into my wilderness period that I had to be purged of a lot of my former beliefs that were nothing more than the traditions of men. Forget religious gatherings for a season and just draw into Him. That is what Paul did for many years after his Damascus Road experience before the Spirit said, “Separate unto me…” and his first “missionary journey” began. He was so effective because he was not taught the gospel by men, but by the Holy Spirit after he counted everything he had learned before that as dung. No one knew the nature of the New Covenant like Paul did and what a difference that has made in so many lives.
You and your family are in my prayers, dear sister,
Michael
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Thank you so much, Michael!
I believe you have provided a very needed confirmation. I have felt this way for a long time, but the problem was my husband who in this sense was more immature than me and felt he NEEDED to gather with other Christians, and we’d thought this “house fellowship” setting was better. It has proved to be more of the same old, same old. 😦
But the good thing is now my husband HAS learned the lesson.
Please pray against self-condemnation, which is the spirit that has been attacking us strongly. David was right on when he talked about self-hatred. A lot of words of warning were uttered by this man, especially to my husband, especially against me. I believe some of it may has been from the Lord, but the devil is using this to discourage me and paralyse me yet again!
Now I’m struggling to find peace again, but the Lord tells me to pray about the Spirit of adoption, which is already in us but the devil has tried to subdue. We have not received a spirit of fear, to be like slaves again, but a spirit of power, love, and self-control. We fear because we are yet being perfected in His perfect love.
Please help us with your prayers, because as we lift our voices in prayer in the spirit of Elijah, praying especially against the idols in us, against the remaining sins that God needs to help us conquer with His grace, Jezebel is showing her fury and trying by all means to kill us. And the Lord has told me in no uncertain terms, You are the church of Thyatira. You are like this because you have tolerated the teachings of Jezebel. It’s true, there were things that I discerned clearly that were not from God, but underestimated the importance of the leaven being introduced.
I agree about the solution. Perhaps we’ll go to visit churches on occasion if the Lord sends us as prophets, but I don’t think we will join any. And we’re in no hurry to set up our own house church to invite people. We do have a house church of three people: Juan Pío, me and Samuel.
I would also appreciate if you would pray about something we believe the Lord told us about our family. There might be a new member joining in, we don’t know if by conception or adoption. We stopped using contraceptives five years ago, so if it will be natural conception, we need a miracle. But as with everything, we need wisdom, too.
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Dear Carina, of course, I will be praying for you, Juan Pío, and Samuel, too! Do not fear, you three are all in His loving hands and He won’t loose His grip, ever. May God give you His peace and comfort into your troubled hearts as only He can.
What made me wonder in your comment was that you said God might send you as prophets into churches. Also, what do you mean by the Jezebel spirit (with which I am now familiar as Michael explained it to me quite some time ago) which “is showing her fury and trying by all means to kill us”? 🙄
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Dear Susanne,
I cannot explain it fully for there are things I’m still trying to discern. But the word from Revelation was very clear and I have received it more than once about me personally.
My husband had a dream last night. He was in a hotel room, and a thief had entered in his absence and broken the lamp. I told him, the thief can be the devil or false teachers. The light is your discernment, your enjoyment of Jesus, your testimony to the world.
In another dream he had after that one, he was at a cousin’s country home, in an open place and there were lots of lizards. Some were multicolored, others were grey. The lizards were attacking each other, then they started to tug at his shoelaces. He tried to get into a bedroom and the lizards entered with him and then tried to attack him. I told him, the multicolored lizards is the gospel of cheap grace. The grey lizards, legalism. They attack each other, and then all in one come against you, against the true gospel of peace (in Ephesians 6 we read that we walk in the sandals of the gospel of peace). They even try to attack you when you are in your inner chamber, praying.
I’d had a similar dream to his first dream a month ago. A thief was in our house, and he was introducing poison in the electrical system to pollute all the light we received in the house.
I believe the “Jezebel-zero-tolerance” God has commanded has something to do with this. Jezebel or some such strong demon has either been tempting me or intimidating and condemning me since I was very little. As early as 8 years old, I was deeply aware of the demonic, and I loved watching horror movies. The worst were those with a “biblical” theme, such as The Exorcist or another one about the book of Revelation that was particularly damaged. After watching it, I was terrified that I may be a child of satan, and even if I wanted to escape that destiny, there was a horrifying sense of doom. My Catholic upbringing didn’t warn me about the dangers of the occult, and I slowly became involved with all kinds of esoteric things, from astrology, palm reading, a visit to a witch with my mum and other New Age and Buddhist or Hindu stuff.
I came back to Catholicism at age 16, and until 21 was deeply involved and convinced. Though I was truly seeking God, I sinned in relationships with unbelievers, because deep down I was lonely and had a difficult relationship with my dad. At 21, the huge crisis after the worst relationship ever with a guy I suspect used some spell to bewitch me, and I was expelled from the first false church of many.
All this background to explain that I have a deep awareness, because of my past, of the stronghold of witchcraft in my life. About Jezebel’s teaching, the Revelation account speaks about fornication (which I believe not only covers sexual sin, but also spiritual adultery, a.k.a. idolatry, which could be worshiping man) and eating things sacrificed to idols (doctrines of demons).
And on this particular situation, I believe the word is in Galatians 3, which we received some time ago but didn’t quite understand what it was pointing at.
O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?
I don’t want to judge the teacher, because it may have been us who misinterpreted what happened, but what we discern is that Jezebel’s vicious intimidation in this case came dressed in the robes of legalism.
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Oh boy, what a story, Carina! 😦
I can only tell you that I keep praying for you and yours that the Lord might open your eyes of the heart so that you can understand all He wanted to show you about your current situation and, maybe, regarding your future, too. We know that the Spirit of the Lord shows us the things to come as well (Jn 16:13), sometimes through promises and sometimes through warnings, but alas, it is quite difficult to discern what He might have meant until His word has been fulfilled before our own eyes.
Every blessing,
Susanne
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Dear Susanne —
This issue has troubled me greatly. Your explanation offers enormous comfort. It, also, coincides w/ the disturbing near death experiences some survivors of clinical death have reported.
Many survivors describe having been drawn toward a beautiful light. This is understood by them to represent heaven. In some visions, Christ appears. In others, His presence is felt.
Some people, however, have far darker visions. Non-believers have reported being attacked by horrific creatures, in total darkness. Desperate for relief, they have called out for help. Only when they called out Jesus’ Name did a pinprick of light appear. This light grew in strength as the fervor of their prayers increased. Eventually, it was revealed to be Jesus.
Scientists, for the most part, take the position that these visions are merely the experience of gradual brain death. Oxygen deprivation is thought to trigger neurons at random. The narrative is the brain’s attempt to make sense of what it is going through.
Whichever explanation you choose to believe, near death experience have been known to fundamentally change lives.
Thank you again for addressing the subject, Susanne.
Loads of love,
A. ❤
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Dear Anna,
I wish I had the answers to every question, which I don’t have, but I am relieved to read that you find comfort in this post, too.
Near death experiences, in fact, can differ widely. I read about non-Christians who had been drawn toward the Light without knowing what IT was, yet its effect was the same as it had had on Christians. I think this has to do with faith. Usually, Christ appears immediately to the one who has known Him in a certain sense before. All others need to get acquainted with the Light at first until they can see that He, indeed, is the light of the (whole) world.
As for these negative experiences, yes, I know about these as well. I had a similar case in my own family although it was no NDE. In this case the person seemed to have changed a lot as death came nearer and nearer. Eventually, he did not even recognize his loved ones as familiar anymore. Instead, he looked at one of them as if there were demons standing near his bed (a look full of anger, fear, suspicion etc. revealed this). I believe that if someone was caught in the darkness during their lifetime, the demons are forced to leave this person before their spirit returns to God where it came from (Eccl 12:7).
We do not see what happens afterwards, but we know that after death comes judgment for every human being (Heb 9:27). Since Jesus Christ is our Divine Judge, we are confronted with His light that screens our whole being like X-rays. On the one hand, we are drawn toward His light by His love and grace, but on the other hand we also see how our old nature really looks like in His scrutinizing light and that might tempt man to run away at first unless he was already used to being exposed to this light during his life on earth. I think it was John of the Cross who said that this process of dying to self here and the one of meeting His light after death would be pretty much the same (am paraphrasing him here).
Regarding the scientists, well, they can only describe what they can measure in the visible realm. From hence, I understand their observations as to our body and esp. brains. However, what they can neither see nor perceive is the spiritual source that feeds the soul and gives our mind pictures, thoughts, and confirmation of what our brain did not know before. Although there are a lot of similarities concerning NDE’s, there are always differences, too. I believe that God uses our individual being and history in order to bring forth what He wants us to know. And primarily He wants us to know that He loves us and that we are forgiven. “For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son…” Demons may interfere and threaten us as long as there is still darkness inside us, here in this life and afterwards, I guess. But they do not have the last word since Jesus’ last words were, “It is finished” as Jesus put away sin forever, for everyone who dares to believe in Him and in what He did for all of us.
Also, as to scientists, your remark reminded me of a neurosurgeon who thought he knew all about our brain and therefore he could not believe in God. However, after a NDE that lasted for even seven days, he had a lot to tell about heaven through which he walked through this long period of time. One might also say, that God enabled this sober scientist to believe in that which he could not believe before.
I am just searching for Dr. Eben Alexander’s website or book on the internet… One moment, please… 😉 So, here it is.
http://www.ebenalexander.com/books/proof-of-heaven/
If you have time and are interested, Anna, I think his book might be well worth reading although I merely read a long summary of his heavenly journey in 2012. However, it was a telling read for me. Of course, other scientists thought he went insane as he after his NDE asserted, “that there is an afterlife, and that consciousness is independent of the brain.” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eben_Alexander_(author))
Loads of love to you, too! 🙂
Susanne ❤
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Susanne and Anna,
I have been blessed by your sharing these things together about Christ appearing as a Being of Light to so many people. I also had what must have been a near death experience on night right after I was filled with the Holy Spirit in 1970. I was asleep in my bed when this very dark being picked me up out of my bed and threw me into the corner of the bedroom and commenced to press me into the corner where the two walls met the floor. Everything got dark and my breath was being pushed out of me. With my last gasp I cried out, “Jesus! HELP!” Immediately that dark force was dispatched from the room and this Being of Light with a human outline larger than I am, came to me and picked me up and put me back in my bed and tucked me in like a mother would her child, All I could feel was His immense love for me. When I was safely in bed again He stroked my brow and then left as if he went out through the wall at the end of my bed. I remember the wonderful peace I had as I drifted off asleep once again, secure in His love.
The scriptures tell us that we who are His are known of and loved by Him from the foundation of the world. We are secure in His love for us and He keeps watch over us and draws us into the knowledge of that relationship and fills us with His Spirit so that we can communicate with Him in this life by revelation that goes beyond our human intellect and understanding. As spirit beings made alive by His Spirit we now can sense His presence very readily as well as His will for us.
Of coarse we can also sense the demon spirits in people and elsewhere and the devil knows who belongs to Christ long before we do and has marked us for all manner of attacks to discourage us from pursuing Christ. Some of these attacks have been by people close to us whom our hearts were open to and thus they were very vicious and destructive as they go deep into our hearts. But the love of Jesus for us is far more powerful and He eventually heals us of those things in our lives and draws us ever deeper into Him with His wonderful love. Paul wrote,
I pray that Jesus continues to draw us and transform us into fully mature sons and daughters of God in His love and Light.
In His love for you both,
Michael ❤
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I think it was pretty close to a NDE, Michael, what you experienced so long ago. What a horror at first, but then HE came to rescue you! Amazing testimony, Michael! 🙂
Amen to your prayer, my brother.
I need to admit that I always cringe a bit when I hear or read, “we who are His…” although it seems to be biblical. Somehow it makes my heart ache and causes me to pray for all people. Oops, searching for the proper Scripture, I just saw that this desire to see all people saved is biblical, too. Although we know from the Bible as well that Jesus will be rejected by (God knows how many) people.
1 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people,
2 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way.
3 This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time. (1 Tim 2:1-6 ESV)
[Emphasis in italics mine]
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Dear Anna,
Michael did a longer research regarding Dr. Eben Alexander (EA) on the internet and it seems EA might be still a bit confused about how to classify his heavenly experiences. So, just in case (as to discerning the spirits), Alexander does not seem to be a convinced Christian yet. But he believes in God. That is a beginning, at least, I would say. 😉
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Susanne,
we should pray for all people whom God puts on our hearts to do so, the way I see it, that they will accept His Son. But to pray for all the people in the world is a bit of to much of a burden for me. I see salvation as an action of the power of God on the hearts of men and women according to His divine will. It takes more power for Him to change one heart than it does to heal that person of cancer because He limits Himself by our free wills. For me, praying that all men would be saved is like praying for “world peace” when billions of people who have warfare in their hearts must be changed into peace loving people for it to happen.
Salvation involves a change of heart, a “whomsoever believes INTO Him shall not perish but have everlasting life” and that faith comes from Him. This is only the beginning, for then He sets about to transform us into His mature sons and daughters and we can read about that process in Romans ch 8. So I have to pray that He changes the hearts of those he puts on my heart. The whole world is too big a burden for me. Yes, there is ONE Mediator between God and man who prays for us all in the presence of the Father. Thank God for that or we would all be lost!
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