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common sense, courage, deception, discerning the spirits, duty, exhortation, experience, false spirits, following Jesus, God's guidance, Jesus Christ, light, Light and Darkness, obedience, Oswald Chambers, peace, resurrection power, spiritual power, Truth in Love, Walking in the Light
“For he is our God, and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts…” (Ps 95:7-8 ESV)
I have come to know several people who thought they were led by the Holy Spirit, who believed in Jesus as their Lord, and who prayed to God, their Father. Alas, the spirits they usually listen to are mostly the voices of their own soul’s desires, their own mind’s ideas, and their self’s pushing interests. Here the question arises whether it makes sense to try to correct someone who is absolutely convinced of being led by God? I am afraid it might be of little help to do so unless God tells us to open our mouths in His perfect time. But speaking up and telling them the truth might turn out a damaging experience if these people are too unstable to be confronted with their deception yet. Maybe, they are confused, maybe, they are mentally sick, maybe, they were led into error by the wrong people.
It is so important to wait on God for His timing regarding these matters since knowing the truth is one thing, speaking the truth in love another. In order to provide some assistance for us as to how we can find out these wrong ‘Christian’ spirits, I would suggest to search people’s vocabulary for words like The Cross of Christ, Suffering and Glory, Old and New Nature/Creation, Death and Resurrection. These are only a few hints, yet you might discover that believers who have been deceived are either imbalanced on the positive side (glory, new creation, resurrection) or they remain stuck in being accused on the other, ‘negative’ side of the Cross, that is, they cannot believe that their sins have been forgiven, once and for all. Instead, they try to propitiate their image of God by doing what they think a Christian should do. Perhaps, you’ll find the following excerpt from one of Oswald Chambers’ devotionals helpful, too.
“Many a Christian worker has left Jesus Christ alone and gone into work from a sense of duty, or from a sense of need arising out of his own particular discernment. The reason for this is the absence of the resurrection life of Jesus. The soul has got out of intimate contact with God by leaning to its own religious understanding. There is no sin in it, and no punishment attached to it; but when the soul realizes how he has hindered his understanding of Jesus Christ, and produced for himself perplexities and sorrows and difficulties, it is with shame and contrition he has to come back.
“We need to rely on the resurrection life of Jesus much deeper down, to get into the habit of steadily referring everything back to Him; instead of this we make our commonsense decisions and ask God to bless them. He cannot, it is not in His domain, it is severed from reality. If we do a thing from a sense of duty, we are putting up a standard in competition with Jesus Christ. We become a “superior person,” and say – “Now in this matter I must do this and that.” We have put our sense of duty on the throne instead of the resurrection life of Jesus. We are not told to walk in the light of conscience or of a sense of duty, but to walk in the light as God is in the light. When we do anything from a sense of duty, we can back it up by argument; when we do anything in obedience to the Lord, there is no argument possible; that is why a saint can be easily ridiculed.”
https://utmost.org/classic/do-ye-now-believe-classic/
“We make our commonsense decisions and ask God to bless them.” Wow! Have you ever done this? I have. And not only once! It even seems to me that I often ask God to bless my habitual doing of carrying out things myself and then wonder whether I ignored His still, small voice because of human reason, due to worldly advice from others, or simply because I feel obliged to behave as I always did, especially when other people are involved.
What do you do when He calls you to come to Him rather than doing somebody a favor, something you could easily do and which would make them happy? Huh? Is it easy for you to say ‘No!” to a human being and ‘Yes!” to God instead? Not for me, I can tell you! It is a struggle when you begin to fight these, yes, DEMONS, that come at us, trying to destroy God’s work IN us. Brothers and sisters, it is always less difficult to do something in the visible realm than to withdraw and draw nigh to God in the invisible realm of our spirit, heart, and mind by doing nothing anyone but God can perceive. What we need here is COURAGE, courage which must be given us through the Holy Spirit’s power that can turn a coward who usually submits to compelling and controlling spirits in other people into an obedient follower of Jesus Christ.
Please, Lord, make it so and give us Your peace as we follow You. Amen.
“Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. Or do you suppose it is to no purpose that the Scripture says, “He yearns jealously over the spirit that he has made to dwell in us”? But he gives more grace. Therefore it says, “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.” Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Be wretched and mourn and weep. Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will exalt you.” (Jas 4:4-10 ESV)
All images by Susanne Schuberth 2017
Entering the Promised Land 
Oh! This was good. Yes, and thank you for reminding me of Oswald Chambers…I may have to get his book off the shelf again. I particularly loved this:
“[I]t is always less difficult to do something in the visible realm than to withdraw and draw nigh to God in the invisible realm of our spirit, heart, and mind by doing nothing anyone but God can perceive. What we need here is COURAGE, courage which must be given us through the Holy Spirit’s power that can turn a coward who usually submits to compelling and controlling spirits in other people into an obedient follower of Jesus Christ.”
Yes. VERY difficult to follow OUT of the visible INTO the invisible. As the journey progresses, though, and as the Spirit deepens our spirit with Him, it becomes less difficult. However, there are hiding spaces in our flesh that we must be brought to see, and reckon them crucified and alive to God.
Thanks for this, Susanne.
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I was glad to hear you found the post helpful, Becky. You are very welcome as to the sharing.
I believe it is always easier to reject the wrong spirits in people with whom we are not related. But it is very difficult to say ‘NO’ to our loved ones, esp. when they know that you acted differently in the past as you now do. It seems to be a learning process for them as well.
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I am overwhelmed by your wisdom, Susanne. I have many times gone off in my own direction, I regret to say. Unfortunately, disciplining myself to listen for the small still voice of God has been as difficult as recognizing when not to engage with someone.
As you say, some people are confused, some mentally impaired, and some deceived. Whether there are more such people online than present in the general public or their presence is simply amplified, I do not know. There is no question that we can sometimes become the focus of such people, and get caught in their web.
While that is painful, I think the pride which supports substitution of our own judgment for God’s is actually more dangerous. For me, the social gospel has often played a role in this. Though I now recognize its limitations — specifically, the failure to place Christ at the center of our world — the social gospel still speaks to me.
I am reminded of the poem, “Abou Ben Adhem” by Leigh Hunt.
Abou Ben Adhem (may his tribe increase!)
Awoke one night from a deep dream of peace,
And saw, within the moonlight in his room…
An angel writing in a book of gold…
And to the presence in the room he said,
“What writest thou?”—The vision raised its head,
And…Answered, “The names of those who love the Lord.”
“And is mine one?” said Abou. “Nay, not so,”
Replied the angel. Abou spoke more low…
and said, “I pray thee, then,
Write me as one that loves his fellow men.”
Herein lies both my condemnation and defense. 🙂
With love and gratitude for the wonderful person you are,
Anna ❤ ❤ ❤
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If something I wrote was really wise, Anna, then it must have sprung from recognizing my own stupidity as I compared God’s leading with my often pretty short-sighted plans. 😉
It seems to me that the internet is a place where people can easily spread their good and bad ideas, much easier than in their everyday lives offline, so to speak. Sometimes I get the impression that you find more people who do not know which spirit they are of on the net than elsewhere, but that does not mean that I don’t meet them in my daily life at all. Quite the contrary! It is a very confusing and deceptive times we live in!
The problem with the social gospel is that it makes us look good from the outside and seems to calm our conscience that wants to do at least SOMETHING. As long as God has been the author of our good works, no problem. But when we develop a system of doing good here and there without needing His leading or advice, then we might have already left Him. I believe the social gospel might have come from an original good thought of God Who had prompted Christians to help some needy people. But as it has always been the case, eventually, we do not like God’s unpredictable guidance, rather, we prefer a man-made system, rules, rituals and tradition because we can control them. However, The Living God and His leading are NEVER controllable! Instead, it turns out a real adventure to follow His leading at times. 😉
This poem you shared is deep… Only one thought that just occured to me… I think that our human soul is able to have compassion with people who are in a low condition, needy people, poor people, sick people etc. We are all created in the image of God and, basically, we should be able to love our fellow men, more or less, at least. Where the rubber meets the road is the question of whether we are also able to love our enemies? This is something no human being can unless God lives in them through the Spirit of Christ which enables them to love unconditionally. From my own experiences I do know that I cannot love that way at all!
You are such a smart and wonderful woman, Anna! I am happy to know you!! 🙂
With love,
Susanne ❤ ❤ ❤
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Smart and wonderful!? You must have mistaken me for someone else (LOL). I am just muddling along, reliant on God’s promise that He will perfect us. We certainly cannot do it ourselves! 🙂 ❤
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No mistakes here. I am a perfectionist! 🙂 ❤
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Wow! Just wow! I have been accused of not being Christian like or not being “a Friend” when I found the courage to say no. This person would then use the name of Jesus to support her reasons of me being unloving because I wouldn’t drop everything to “help” her. Therefore putting me on a guilt trip and then resenting her for such.
No. I cannot ask God to bless me in this situation at all. I actually feel trapped.
Another thing. I don’t mind being confronted but only by people whom I know are true followers of Christ. Which in the flesh I do not know many at all. Sometimes I get a little scared knowing I made a not so good moving decision. Anyways…Very good blog Susanne. I am learning it is okay to say no. And….not feel guilty.
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Thank you, dear Stacey. ❤
I think I know this trap you spoke of. Just today as God nudged me to say ‘NO’ to someone who would have loved to speak with me, I said, “Lord, I know now that You were not always a friendly man as You walked the earth.” Jesus saw the invisible realm and acted against the wrong spirits. Man who is born (spiritually) blind only sees Him rejecting people and believes this is an anti-Christian spirit which is NOT the truth. Our Lord simply drew a clear line between the Kingdom of God and the confusing and destructive realm where Satan reigns. Jesus did so by resolutely resisting the devil, even in His disciples at times.
I pray that God might help you regarding your not so good moving condition.
Love,
Susanne
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Thank you Susanne. I am still learning. I am recognizing the manipulation and control in others more quickly these days. And I know I don’t want to be like that. I am enjoying the other comments here as well. To me it is like taking a class.
Love you too Susanne!
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You are welcome, Stacey. Thanks for your encouraging words regarding the comments on here. Much appreciated! 🙂
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Susanne, this hits close to home as most of your posts do. To be a friend of this world is to be an enemy of God. Oh, how we just want to be accepted and be thought well of! But Jesus showed us that we can not do the will of the Father and do what is acceptable in the eyes of the world or even our own families.
Then his mother and his brothers came to him, but they could not reach him because of the crowd. And he was told, “Your mother and your brothers are standing outside, desiring to see you.” But he answered them, “My mother and my brothers are those who hear the word of God and do it.” (Luke 8:19-21, ESV2011)
Thanks for the reminder, dear heart.
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You are welcome, dear Michael. I hope it is good that this article hit close to home with you…?
Yes, our old nature wants to be loved and accepted by everyone. It seems to me that if we really knew the love of God, our people pleaser problems might decrease sharply.
Ha! While writing this blog, I also thought about sharing this Scripture you pasted, my dear brother! ❤ Thanks for listening to Him! 🙂
I believe Jesus did not deny his family after the flesh, but pointed to the spiritual Kingdom of God where everyone who has been born of God belongs to The Divine Family.
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Well, Susanne, as read your reply I was reminded of another story when Jesus seemed to deny the will of his family that sought to control Him. It was when they wanted Him to go up to Jerusalem to a religious feast with them and He told them, “Your time is always, but my time is not yet come.” When our family and friends have taken a course of action or a mindset that is not directed by God (in this case religious tradition) and we hear the Spirit saying “No, don’t follow them or their wishes!” we need to deny their would-be control over us. To the carnally minded person, their time is always. They can daily dress themselves as they wish and stretch forth their hands and go where they want, when they want. Not so with those who are led by the Spirit.
“Paul, a slave of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle and singled out for God’s good news” (Rom 1:1, HCSB)
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Very good example, Michael! That fits perfectly! ⭐
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One other thought… You wrote, “It seems to me that if we really knew the love of God, our people pleaser problems might decrease sharply.” Is that ever the truth! I think that this might be the root of all our confusion and misery in this life, a lack of a loving relationship with our Father. If we really believed that our Daddy loves us it would mean more to us to do His will than trying to earn the conditional love of those around us by following their leadings.
“The man departed, and told the Jews that it was Jesus, who had made him whole. And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. But Jesus answered them, ‘My Father works still, and I work.'” (John 5:15-17, KJ2000)
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Michael, you wrote,
“If we really believed that our Daddy loves us it would mean more to us to do His will than trying to earn the conditional love of those around us by following their leadings.”
Amen! THAT is so true, my brother!!
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Thank you for being faithful to write according to the Spirit’s leading, Susanne. I usually find a nugget or two in your posts and the comments which others leave.
Blessings!
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You are very welcome, Louise. Good to hear that you saw His leading in what was written on here.
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Dear Susanne
What an enlightening post!
I was moved by Stacey’s comment on her situation. I too have lived in places like she has found herself in with those who I thought were like spirit. Alas it was a wreck lol
– I can only laugh now that it is behind me! I know God will use it (and IS using it 🙂 for our benefit in the long run for character development and to fine tune our discernment. This is not an overnight lesson and is still processing 🙂
Regarding this I was thinking of how Jesus acted (He never RE-ACTED) in so many of the examples in scripture and would add a few verses that I hope are supportive and edifying…(Caps are mine)
John 2:23-25 (AMPC)
But when He was in Jerusalem during the Passover Feast, many believed in His name [identified themselves with His party] after seeing His signs (wonders, miracles) which He was doing.
BUT JESUS [FOR HIS PART] DID NOT TRUST HIMSELF TO THEM BECAUSE HE KNEW ALL [MEN]
And He did not need anyone to bear witness concerning man [needed no evidence from anyone about men], for He Himself knew what was in human nature. [HE COULD READ MENS HEARTS]
Jesus is our example of walking in and being led by the Spirit and there are umpteen examples of this throughout scripture.
I loved your reply to Stacey, Susanne! So compassionate in its clarity:
(quote)“I think I know this trap you spoke of. Just today as God nudged me to say ‘NO’ to someone who would have loved to speak with me, I said, “Lord, I know now that You were not always a friendly man as You walked the earth.” Jesus saw the invisible realm and acted against the wrong spirits. Man who is born (spiritually) blind only sees Him rejecting people and believes this is an anti-Christian spirit which is NOT the truth. Our Lord simply drew a clear line between the Kingdom of God and the confusing and destructive realm where Satan reigns. Jesus did so by resolutely resisting the devil, even in His disciples at times.”(end quote)
For me this is often the difficulty – how to know of what spirit others are of – as our Lord knew them. Even to be made aware if they are responding to something not right in me and be willing to then repent for that myself! It’s not always “them” to blame is it?
The key I think, as you aptly pointed out, is obedience to God when He asks us to do what looks sometimes contrary to reason or not our usual behavior or even what we perceive to be ‘helpful’ OR with misdirected zeal like James and John! The fruit of that obedience would be His peace in our hearts – though the other person(s) involved may be anything but peaceful…
Luke 9:52-56
And He sent messengers before Him; and they reached and entered a Samaritan village to make [things] ready for Him;
But [the people] would not welcome or receive or accept Him, because His face was [set as if He was] going to Jerusalem.
And when His disciples James and John observed this, they said, Lord, do You wish us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, [s]even as Elijah did?
But HE TURNED and REBUKED and SEVERELY CENSURED them.
[t]HE SAID YOU DO NOT KNOW OF WHAT SORT OF SPIRIT YOU ARE
For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them [u][from the penalty of eternal death]. And they journeyed on to another village.
***and finally: one more thought from 2 Corinthians 5:16
Consequently, from now on we estimate and regard no one from a [purely] human point of view [in terms of natural standards of value]. [No] even though we once did estimate Christ from a human viewpoint and as a man, yet now [we have such knowledge of Him that] we know Him no longer [in terms of the flesh].
Praying that we grow into the place/position where it can be said of us that Satan has NO PLACE in us regardless of what that costs. Amen
Love you!
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Thanks for your edifying words and for proper Scripture, Judi.
You asked,
“For me this is often the difficulty – how to know of what spirit others are of – as our Lord knew them. Even to be made aware if they are responding to something not right in me and be willing to then repent for that myself! It’s not always “them” to blame is it?”
Good question! I would even say that it should neither be about blaming them nor us, but to always remember the fact that we “we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.” (Eph 6:12 ESV)
Even if we draw clear lines by shutting people out, we do so by rejecting the spirit that is in them. Nonetheless, Jesus also prayed for his enemies. That is real spiritual love, I believe. Actually, I often wonder how Christians can tolerate everyone regardless their belief and behavior, never taking a stand as God might lead them. If there is a controlling/confusing/deceiving spirit in a person, this spirit will try to get hold of our own spirit which only works if we deny God’s leading for us. Disobedience toward God is necessary here in order to please these misled people.
Although I usually sense when I have to do with a strange spirit, I also know that I tend to submit to the other person’s spirit because I do not want to disappoint them (neighbors, friends, loved ones). And here I need a lot of more strength from God to be consequent in a clear YES or NO. Just struggled with this today!! 😛 As for finding these spirits out in other people, I can say that I feel more and more uneasy when I ‘must’ talk with them (they often have a strong self-will they try to impose on others). In such cases I would rather run away as an invisible fist of sorts tries to get hold of my heart. I felt that today stronger and stronger and, finally, I really almost run away in order to be alone with God again and to ask Him about these peculiar feelings that had got me so disturbed.
As for strange spirits in ourselves….. Hmmm….. Just praying about this…..
I can only say that spiritual fellowship can be very helpful here. Either God shows me what has been wrong with me or a brother/sister can point me to these things I have not seen in myself yet. We simply need to ask God who always shares His wisdom with us as we throw all our worries and anxieties on Him (cf. James 1:5; 1 Peter 5:7).
Love,
Susanne
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Thank you, Susanne for such a great reply! the scriptures you shared were a needed reminder…
I want to clarify that I was not meaning that “strange spirits” were in us – though I was taught that can be so – but am not so sure anymore about much of what I was taught. I was thinking more so that others can potentially trigger ‘old stuff ‘ that we have not dealt with – in our souls?- and so we re-act inappropriately rather than recognize either the old nature flesh or another spirit is instigating a wrong, and thus disobedient, response due to the stimuli hitting us. I don’t want to go off topic here…
I definitely agree that spiritual fellowship can pinpoint those things we are not seeing – like the toothpick in someone else’s eye that I think I can see while having a Big Log in my own eye! I have missed correction in the past due to thinking I was ‘right’ so have had some hard lessons here.
Love you and thanking God for you sister 🙂
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You are very welcome, Judi.
No no, that was not off topic at all! Thanks for clarification regarding strange spirits vs. triggers. Once again I was reminded of an older blog post I wrote in 2015 about how we usually react to triggers. It is not a long article. If you have time to read it, here’s the link.
https://enteringthepromisedland.wordpress.com/2015/02/09/life-is-a-triggery-business/
Love to you,
Susanne
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Addendum: Meant to add a ‘Like Like’ to your post and reply 🙂
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Thank you very much, Judi! 🙂
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WOW Susanne! I am blown away after reading your suggested post “Life is a Triggery Business”! I can SO relate to what is shared in that post and the comments.
Kinda like a walk down a not so great “Memory Lane” LOL.
I read all 49 comments too and can only say that the words in 1 Corinthians 13:12 were what came to my mind, though it was not quoted there. I looked it up and think I should add the verses above and below 🙂
1 Corinthians 13:11-13 (ESV)
“When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.”
2 Corinthians 2:14 (ESV)
“The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.” XOXO
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It is always refreshing for me to see your reaction when you have read another blog plus comment threads, Judi. 🙂
If you like to read many replies, I have one blog post with almost 100 responses there, too. Just kidding!! 😀 In the past I let more people comment and I myself spent some time on other blogs as well, both reading and commenting. That’s why there were more people on here in the past. But the more God drew me to His Spirit’s life, honestly, the less blogs I found interesting (either too many confusing spirits around or too much theory on the whole).
As for the first Scripture you pasted, in fact, it is all about growing up into Him by letting the mind of Christ replace our natural human mind. As to the ‘knowing’ in these verses, I believe they refer to ‘knowing’, i.e., loving God in the Spirit, which is a mystery until God reveals it to us. Seeing Him in the Spirit (in a mirror dimply) also is a mystery before God shows up so that we can see Him. Only the pure in heart can see Him. I guess you know this Scripture (Mt 5:8).
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Hahahaha! After reading some of these comments I had to laugh out loud with the “Like Like”. It seems I am not allowed to just like a comment because my WP account is connected to an old phone number that I no longer have. But thank you for including me in your examples. I appreciate the encouragement as well. Like I mentioned before in another comment to Susanne, and even Michael it is like taking classes and learning from each other’s trials.
Susanne! I can so relate to running away! Thank Heavens I can adjust my volumes to my hearing aids. But not hearing can get me in trouble too. But I have choices. To hear or not to hear. I would prefer not to hear what triggers me. But if necessary I will step back and examine my triggers after calming down. Is it me? Or is it them? Me or them? If indeed it is me I hope to be able to go to Abba and ask Him to help correct it. For peace to be restored even if I avoid the people for a time.
God bless you all! Amen.
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Glad you can relate. 🙂
May God bless you, too, dear Stacey.
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Hahaha Stacey! I was so glad to see your “Like Like” on another post. In my case since I do not have a blog I can not sign into WordPress and hit the “Like” stars. Your creative idea works for me 🙂 I would add “Like”s to more comments but don’t want to take up too much space…I voraciously read all the comments though and rarely have I not liked what I have read …It is so good that we have a “safe place” to share here. Praying for God’s peace, love, and GREAT grace to you dear sister in your journey… XOXO
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Thanks, Stacey. May Jesus bless and guide you more perfectly every day.
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I don’t have a clue most of the time if I am being lead by GOD or not.
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You are not alone regarding this, Fred. It is a long process until we get more and more used to hearing God’s still and small voice, which is VERY difficult in these noisy and hectic times we live in. Nonetheless, I hope the following excerpt from an older artile of mine might help. If you want to read it all, just follow the link below.
It appears to me that God wants to warn us about listening to any spirit that willingly answers our questions and offers much information about the topics we want to see explored. God’s guidance was and is always unpredictable and it takes a whole lot of surrendering of our own thoughts and plans over to Him, and loads of time to wait on Him until He eventually clearly says,
“This is the way, walk in it.”
Satan instead is the one who wants to keep our minds always occupied and busy. He loves to attack our God-given peace with urging us to listen to his permanent suggestions that feed our natural reason and understanding. The devil wants to see us restless, running around like a lunatic – even if, perhaps, only in our minds – and rambling on thoughts which are not suitable for building and edifying the hearer or reader (cf. Eph 4:29-32).
Indeed, God’s overwhelming peace makes all the difference. Hence, we ought to be careful as soon as we sense an increasing restlessness in our hearts and minds, the awareness of having lost clear direction, and an accumulation of confusing and unsettling thoughts. Satan is a clever guy, an expert regarding struggle and strife, and the pronounced opponent of all people in whom he perceives the fruit of God’s Holy Spirit, as it is described here,
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.” (Gal 5:22-23 ESV)
Even though is it not always that easy, let us try to keep waiting on Him, on these specific moments in His time when all things can happen naturally, peacefully, without rushing and compulsion. God never forces us to do anything, nor to do more than we are able to. He is a gentle giver, not a subtle seducer. And God, finally, makes us love all people. Satan instead wants to see no unity between human beings. Actually, all negativity and all those thoughts that make us feel bad or think bad about others indeed have their origin in Satan’s deceitful tricks he so often plays on us.
https://enteringthepromisedland.wordpress.com/2014/11/17/gods-gentle-guidance-vs-satans-subtle-seduction/
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