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ambition, aspiration, desires, discerning the spirits, dying to self, emotions, encouragement, entering his rest, experience, eyes of the heart, following Jesus, God's love, joy, light, love, mind, Mount Zion, peace, soul, suffering, T.A. Sparks, the 144.000, the Lamb, the mind of Christ, the will, walking by the spirit
Several Christians over the last centuries have had thoughts and ideas about who these particular people mentioned in the Book of Revelation might be. Even a cult (Jehovah’s Witnesses) claimed this whole group of believers for their own purposes. But can it be that easy? 🙄 Is there a single Christian denomination or a ‘Christian’ cult that would be able to comprise those 144,000 who seem to occupy a very special position, maybe, even the best position possible as to their closeness to God? 🙄
I saw in my last post where I mainly published longer excerpts from T. Austin Sparks that it does not make much sense to go on doing so. It seems I should offer some explanations combined with my own experiences or insights regarding all topics so that the whole article gets more vivid. Actually, I know myself how tedious the simple reading of facts without enlightening examples can be. 😉 So I decided to include only short excerpts by TAS where I thought it might be helpful and to also offer my own ideas as to the following Scriptures. As for these 144,000, the apostle John describes what he saw in the Book of Revelation.
Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven like the roar of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder. The voice I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps, and they were singing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb, and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless. (Rev 14:1-5 ESV)
What can we say about the Lamb standing on Mount Zion here? 🙄 We need not forget that the New Covenant is a mere spiritual one. It is no longer about going on pilgrimage by foot to some ‘holy places’, whether in Jerusalem or elsewhere, as our Lord has risen! He is already standing on this spiritual mountain as He has achieved this goal for all of us who long to be with Him forever. Furthermore, as I have learned lately from the Lord, this mountain can be reached during our lifetime if He allows since IN Him we are His fellow heirs of ALL things already now. Nonetheless, we need to wait for the consummation of these promises as far as our physical bodies are concerned. However, our spiritual bodies can be in heaven with Him RIGHT NOW. Even on this mountain! Let’s see what T. Austin Sparks wrote about the Lamb standing there…
“The terms of this passage in Revelation 14 are themselves significant and indicate things. “I saw… the Lamb…” Well, that at once signifies suffering and sacrifice. “And with him a hundred and forty and four thousand… purchased.” These are not only redeemed ones; these have been brought into a very close fellowship with what that very title, the Lamb, means — suffering, sacrifice. It is going to be that to bring about such a oneness as is here indicated.
““Standing on the mount Zion.” This is a place which occupies a very great prominence throughout the Word of God, and it always signifies the highest point and peak of attainment. It is the realisation of all aspirations. “Whither the tribes go up” (Ps. 122:4) There are many references to mount Zion, and it is a very, very conspicuous thing in the Scriptures; and it always suggests some object of highest ambition, strongest aspiration, and, to be there, the gratification of the deepest desire of the life.” (1)
We can say that those who are that close to the Lamb and are even one with Christ, they must have come to know the fellowship of His sufferings, too. Therefore, they are so close to Him as ‘the Lamb”. Also, they offered up their earthly lives as a living sacrifice to Him who secured this high place for them. Being there on high might mean, “The gratification of the deepest desire of the life” TAS just said above. What was he talking about there? 🙄 Isn’t it every human being’s deepest desire to experience the deepest love and intimacy possible, to have achieved all our ambitious goals (creatively and professionally), and to live a life without pains, worries, sorrows, but only in restful peace and joy forevermore? 🙄
Here we must stop for a moment. Not that confusion comes up. From a worldly point of view, every human being who has not been completely crippled by circumstances wants to achieve ‘something’ in life, whether it is about having a family, a career, to become famous, whatever. Sparks several times mentioned that ambition in itself is not wrong as it has been God-given originally. Whether our ambition is to be seen as good or not depends on the source out of which it has sprung from: Has it come from God or from Satan, or rather, was it our uncrucified flesh (self) that has unknowingly submitted to the enemy?
We all have different natural talents, some have more, some have less. But that number of talents is not at all important as for being enabled to stand with the Lamb on this mountain. In order to bring us to this high spiritual position, we need to go through decades of suffering during which our old nature’s powers are being killed. Our soul (the will, mind, and emotions) that usually acts independently from God to achieve its own goals must be brought into oneness with the One Who created the soul initially. This process needs a long time, indeed!
I do not want to dig deeper as to the number 144,000 of which I believe it should not be taken literally. Hebrew numbers often have a significance that goes deeper than a normal number might indicate. If you want to read more, you can follow the link to TAS’ article in which he pointed to a sort of selectiveness here. I only want to mention that the number 12 basically means “Governmental perfection” (2). 12 times 12 equals 144, well, if that is not the completion of Divine government, I don’t know… 🙄 Furthermore, the number 1,000 signifies “Divine completeness and Fathers glory” (2). 144,000 then seems to be about divine perfection, doesn’t it?
What jumped right out on me as I read chapter 14 of the Book of Revelation lately was the fourth verse that says these “virgins” (i.e., those who have only one God), “these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes.” Isn’t John talking here about walking in the Spirit continually? We read in Romans, chapter 8, that those who follow Jesus Christ’s leading, even through suffering, they will be glorified. I always thought that glorification fully belongs to our life after leaving the earth. But is that really the truth? 🙄 Paul told us,
For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him. For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. (Rom 8:14-19 ESV)
Just in case you think that I might have gone crazy lately, maybe, you are right. 😉 Indeed, I am overwhelmed to increasingly discover that the whole of the Bible, including the Book of Revelation, can come true for us any time, even RIGHT NOW (although only by God’s grace, of course). Paul in these verses above said that he did not consider the sufferings of this present time worth comparing with the glory to be revealed. In fact, I was always wondering how a man who endured numerous pains and persecution could make such an incredible statement. 🙄 It was only recently that it has begun to dawn on me that God wants to enable us to change our perspective on all things completely. Walking in the heavenlies with God and Jesus gives us a whole new view on everything which is perishable here on the earth. Actually, I do not want to write more about this issue as this has already turned into a pretty long article. I am sorry as that was not my initial intention. Yet I am afraid I could go on writing for days and hours, like Peter and John who said, “for we cannot stop speaking about what we have seen and heard.” (Acts 4:20 NASB)
One final thought just came to my mind as for walking in (His) Spirit. Isn’t it true that we cannot walk by the Spirit if our thoughts and concerns are focused on everything that takes place on this earth, whether it is happening right now, or if it will come to pass in the future, or if the occurrence is already history? 🙄 I believe we need to have died to our old nature through these aforementioned sufferings with Christ so that we can experience the power of His resurrection that translates us into the heavens spiritually. Then we will be able to walk in the heavenlies with Him Who took us there because He longs to be together with us forever, too.
If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth. For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. (Col 3:1-4 ESV)
(1) https://www.austin-sparks.net/english/books/001042.html
(2) https://spiritualray.com/biblical-meaning-of-numbers
All images © Susanne Schuberth 2021
My dear sister IN Christ. There is so much here to digest! Like you, I have come to the place where I also believe that so many verses we have read in the past as pertaining to something after we die, actually apply to our walk IN Christ in the here and now. So much is lost when we think of scriptures regarding heaven as something we will only experience AFTER we physically die. But this passage in Romans and other verses show us that it is all for the here and now. To live in God’s seventh day IN Christ is to enter into God’s eternity and his timelessness.
“But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ… and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,” (Eph 2:4-6, ESV2011)
I know that you have experienced this already, Susanne. Although I have not had visions of this happening, I know in my spirit when I am there. When this happens, His peace, faith, love, joy, patience and all the attributes of the Spirit converge within us at the same time. And it is wonderful when we are both there together. Oh, the glory!
“And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer [sumpascho (sïm-pas’-chō) v. to experience pain jointly or of the same kind] with him, that we may be also glorified together [sundoxazo (sïn-d̮o-xa’-zō) v.to exalt to dignity in company with]. (Rom 8:17, KJV)
If we are joint heirs now of ALL that is of Christ because we have been made alive WITH Him and are IN Him in heavenly places even now, then it is a “full meal deal.”
How often we have felt as if we were already in heaven while fellow-shiping in the Spirit together! And how often we have borne one another’s burdens as I did with you and Paul while your daughter’s life was at stake. But oh the triumph we have been experiencing when she was loosed of the enemy’s grip and now grows in knowing Jesus in a personal way day by day!
As we walk in the Spirit we suffer in this life WITH Him. This can also happen in our own bodies when we have been knit together in the Spirit with another saint who is suffering. Paul wrote,
“…But God has so composed the body [of Christ], giving greater honor to the part that lacked it, that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.” (1Cor 12:24-26, ESV2011)
“Remember those who are in prison, as though in prison with them, and those who are mistreated, since you also are in the body.” (Heb 13:3, ESV2011)
As an example, one time I dropped a heavy object on my toe. I could feel the pain from my toe to the tips of my teeth! So it is in the body of Christ who are grafted together as ONE body IN Him. I still remember how grieved I was in my spirit when the Jonestown massacre happened in 1978 in Guyana even before I heard the news. Over 900 souls died that day. When Jesus suffers, we suffer, too, for He doesn’t will that anyone should perish, but that all might be saved.
So, the reason for all this pain and suffering is to that we may also be glorified with Him in heavenly places at the very throne of God on Mount Zion.
“And one of the elders said to me, “Weep no more; behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah…and I saw a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain…” (Rev 5:5-6, ESV2011)
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I am happy you relate to what I wrote here, Michael. Thank you for your comfirming words and Scriptures, my brother. Actually, I particularly like these verses from Ephesians you quoted. It was God, our Father, who “made us alive together with Christ… and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.”
What a loving God we have! 💞💞💞
I know what you meant as to suffering with the whole body. Whenever someone leaves this blog as they were offended for some reason and I sense they might have gone astray, I suffer a lot. Not so when I know someone who commented here has died in Jesus. About these we do not need to worry anymore, quite the contrary. I think they might find their way up to Mount Zion on the other side of the veil now. Jesus asked Martha as her brother was already dead,
“I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?” (Jn 11:25-26 ESV)
Those who died without having experienced eternal life during their time on earth but believed in Christ, they will be given this life afterwards (after having appeared before Christ’s Judgment Seat).
And these who have already received His eternal life as they have come to know the only true God and the one whom He has sent (see Jn 17:3), these won’t die anymore as they just now are already walking in the heavenlies with God and Christ. Here we have the 144,000 again. 😇👍🏼
So we can ask with Paul,
“O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?” The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the LAW. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Cor 15:55-57 ESV)
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In John 11:25 He said,
“I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believes in [Grk. eis – into] me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever lives and believes in [eis – into] me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
There is so much difference between believing “in” Jesus or “upon” His name than having faith that places us IN Him. It is the same difference that Jesus was confronting with Martha in this passage. “Whoever believes INTO me and lives IN Me shall never die.” We as Christians speak of having a personal relationship with Jesus, but Jesus means it to be MUCH more PERSONAL than most Christians have ever dreamed.
I remember witnessing on the streets of Spokane, Washington in 1970 and the replies I would get when asking people if they believed in Jesus.
“Why of course! I am an American aren’t I?”
or
“Of course! What do you think I am, a heathen?”
They spoke of themselves being a “Christian” as part of their birthright as an American instead of the intimacy they had IN Christ in a personal heavenly way. What a shame. It is okay with such as these to go to church one day a week to keep their “fire insurance” paid up, but to get on a personal level with the living God who exposes His Light in the depths of their beings? That is just too obtrusive! Such is Christianity in most of the world today.
You are a heavenly treasure IN Christ, my dear sister, ⭐
Michael
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Michael, your description of Christendom reminded me of another Scripture. James wrote,
17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!
20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? (Js 2:17-20)
If we do not have God-given faith in Christ from God Who alone can draw us to His Son, we can believe whatever we want, that kind of ‘faith’ has no power to save us in any way.
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Yes, Susanne, God has to be the progenitor of our life IN Christ. We can’t call ourselves into His kingdom nor can we work our way in. As for the relationship of faith and works…
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love. (Gal 5:6, ESV2011).
Faith without a love relationship with Jesus and the Father is dead!
“If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.” (1Cor 13:1-3, ESV2011)
As the branches on Father’s True Vine, Jesus, and His love flowing in and through us, this brings forth HIS fruit and nothing else can. ❤ ❤ ❤
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Amen, Michael. Well said! 🕊️❤️👍🏼
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Truly, suffering has the capacity to draw us close to Christ. ❤
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Yes, suffering with Christ in His Spirit will do it.
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