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being born again, Bernard of Clairvaux, dark night of the soul, darkness, ecstasy, experience, eyes of the heart, following Jesus, God's love, heart, intimacy, Janet Ruffing, Jesus Christ, joy, Karl Rahner, mysticism, pain, sanctification, Sebastian Moore, spiritual power, the dark night of the spirit, the new self, the old self
His Love is Stronger than Death…
(Picture taken from http://guardthedoor.com/day-8-love-is-not-jealous/)
Am I able to love like God loves? No, never, and that won’t ever change. But I do know as soon as my old self has been completely died, I can.
How is that possible? The only hindrance to let God’s love fully flow through us and from us to others is the old Adam, the one who has not yet given up on trying to do God’s work, the one who has not yet stricken his colors and given into that painful process of dying to self whatever the cost. I do admit that cutting heart pains day and night are not fun, really. 😦 Yet Jesus didn’t promise us that circumcision of the heart by pruning our old and worthless branches would be all joy and pleasure. Instead, He called sanctification “the narrow way to life” which only a few were able to find during their lifetime. Our goal should be the one the apostle Paul by grace had already achieved as he described here,
“I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.” (Gal 2:20 ESV)
How do we get there? Although I can tell you that it is anything but easy to keep still when the pain cuts deeper and deeper, I have realized as soon as God helped me to yield to this process and to surrender to Him, I could suddenly feel His love stronger and deeper than ever although suffering did NOT stop. No, it has been increasing lately so that I thought I couldn’t take it any longer. But suddenly I saw Jesus as close as I have never seen Him before and I simultaneously felt that the deepest joy and love could be found right there in those deep valleys of death, where I find myself joined and knitted together in oneness with Him who knows suffering like no one else. The apostle Peter said,
“Since therefore Christ suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves with the same way of thinking, for whoever has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, so as to live for the rest of the time in the flesh no longer for human passions but for the will of God.” (1 Pt 4:1-2 ESV)
Paul explained that “we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.” (Rom 8:17 ESV) That is exactly what I have been experiencing lately. Not only a period of suffering and some new-found glory afterwards, no, even in the midst of deepest suffering there is a higher degree of glory which could never be achieved without suffering. So meanwhile, suffering makes sense to me.
As for experiencing God’s love to an ever deeper and stronger extent, I want to emphasize that it is indeed God who longs to be loved back by us. The more we yield to everything that happens in our life – inside (heart change) and outside of us (circumstances) – the easier it is to get closer to Him. However, even here we need His grace so that we finally surrender all we have and what we are to His pruning, but loving hands.
By the way, what is LOVE at all?
The Bible does not tell us that God gives us His love, nor do we read that one of God’s chief features is love. No, we are confronted with the statement that God’s BEING is love. Love is not an essential part of Him, LOVE is all there is about Him.
Okay, I admit, that is not a really new thing and we may talk about God and His love forever and a day, however, if we never experience what it means to be loved unconditionally, just the way we are and with our whole being involved, all such statements remain non-words for us. We can read the Bible back and forth and up and down, shake the whole book until all words related to love fall out of it, we can count them then, yet that won’t feed our hungry souls, either.
The bad news is, we cannot make it nor fake it if we have not yet experienced His love because our ability to love others is strongly related to our receptivity for the love of God. The more love God has shed into our heart (Rom 5:5), that is, the more we have been filled with His Spirit, the more we will be able to love everyone, even our worst enemies. But the good news is that we all know love to a certain degree, some more, some less, depending on the extent of love we have received from our parents, lovers, children, relatives, and friends in our whole lifetime. And the human love we already know is the gateway for new and deeper experiences of divine love.
I do not want to present doubtful “methods” on how to quickly find God’s love and on how to experience it since that is not possible. It is always God who draws us closer to Him and all we can do is seek Him and ask Him to give us what we do not know yet. Instead, I want to give you an excerpt from an article by Janet Ruffing of which I hope it offers some food for thought and discussion on here.
[Karl] Rahner emphasizes over and over again that the fundamental experience of the believer is that we are not abandoned to our own devices, set loose in the world, longing for a transcendent experience of love we can never have, but that the very Mystery itself solicits us, moves toward us in love and in mercy. This movement of the Mystery toward us is what the Christian revelation is all about; it is also what Islam and Judaism are about. All three traditions hold that God is personal and God is love. In Christianity that love became totally human and accessible in Jesus.
Further, the mystical part of these three traditions assert that we are to enter fully into intimacy with the Divine Beloved. We are to become love, too. The search for the Beloved by the believer is not initiated from the human side. It is the result of the reality that we have already been awakened to this divine love affair from God’s side. No matter how confusedly we interpret this experience, no matter how many mistakes we make along the way, no matter how often this desire for the Divine Beloved gets displaced onto other loves or other objects of desire, God continues to solicit and elicit our love. [Sebastian] Moore says, “All desire [is] solicitation by the mystery we are in” (Jesus, Liberator of Desire, p. 11). The mystical process itself is the path toward illumination-toward recognizing what these desires are about, correctly interpreting them, and directing them toward the Divine. All our loves can be encompassed in this divine love – all human loves contribute to our capacity for this divine-human intimacy. Our human loves, according to Bernard of Clairvaux, all become ordered in relation to the divine love. Whenever we fall in love, our beloved is God for us for a while. If our beloved is not the divine beloved, we will eventually be called to forgive them for not being able to be God for us.
(Presence, An International Journal Of Spiritual Direction, Jan 1995, p. 24/25)
If you want to read more, click here: http://divinity.yale.edu/sites/default/files/Encountering%20Love%20Mysticism.pdf
Dear Susanne, as I read your blog article about how our suffering never seems to come to and end once we have set our eyes on the Son and His heavenly goal, then I thought of this same passage you quoted from First Peter, and a few seconds later I was reading it in your article! Talk about being of the same Spirit! This seems to be happening more and more among us who are walking in obedience to the cross.
You wrote, “But suddenly I saw Jesus as close as I have never seen Him before and I simultaneously felt that the deepest joy and love could be found right there in those deep valleys of death, where I find myself joined and knitted together in oneness with Him who knows suffering like no one else.” This passage came to mind,
“Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil; for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me. Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of my enemies; thou anointest my head with oil, my cup overflows.”
(Psalms 23:4-5 RSVA)
Yes, it is here in this valley where our dying is found that we find this closer walk with our Gentle Shepherd who loves us and comforts us. It is HERE that we feast at the table set for us by His Spirit that they who serve in the tabernacles of men will can not eat. Sister, like Paul said so clearly, “Death works in me that life might abound to others.” This is where REAL ministry comes from.
“…always carrying in the body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our bodies. For while we live we are always being given up to death for Jesus’ sake, so that the life of Jesus may be manifested in our mortal flesh. So death is at work in us, but life in you.” (2 Corinthians 4:10-12 RSVA)
You wrote, “Not only a period of suffering and some new-found glory afterwards, no, even in the midst of deepest suffering there is a higher degree of glory which could never be achieved without suffering. So meanwhile, suffering makes sense to me.”
Yes, “Always carrying in our bodies the death of Jesus…” What a great revelation He has put in your heart, my lovely sister! It is such a great joy to have this deep fellowship with you! ❤
You wrote, “The more we yield to everything that happens in our life – inside (heart change) and outside of us (circumstances) – the easier it is to get closer to Him. However, even here we need His grace so that we finally surrender all we have and what we are to His pruning, but loving hands.” Yes, so true! The more this has been happening in me. the more I see the wisdom of what Paul said, “ALL things work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to HIS purpose.”
This is a very interesting quote, “Our human loves, according to Bernard of Clairvaux, all become ordered in relation to the divine love. Whenever we fall in love, our beloved is God for us for a while. If our beloved is not the divine beloved, we will eventually be called to forgive them for not being able to be God for us.” Yes! That is my own experience, too. For most of my life I have sought either a man, a guru in the church to be my father who loves me and nurtures me, “storge” love. Or I have sought love from a woman to love me often being “eros” love. Or I have sought fellowship and friendship with my peers “phileo” love, when all the time what I really needed was the ONE love that can fill all my hearts desires, “agape” love. John wrote, “We love him, because he first loved us.” (1 John 4:19 KJ2000). Our Father’s irresistible love finally will win our hearts and all these other loves will fall in behind where they belong as He changes our hearts.
Thank you my precious sister for sharing your heart and pain bought wisdom with us. It is great to have this fellowship in the Spirit with you.
Michael xx
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Dear Michael,
You may know that I am very grateful for that wonderful and deep spiritual fellowship our Father in Heaven provided for us, too. Becoming more and more one spirit, one heart, and one mind is a priceless gift God has bestowed on us, His beloved children.
Indeed, I am glad I denied myself to quote more Scriptures in my article, quasi anticipating you would, perhaps, quote Psalm 23:4 and 2 Corinthians 4:10-12. And you did. 🙂
You also quoted,
“ALL things work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to HIS purpose.”
Yes, my brother! More and more I “feel” and believe the truth of what has been said in that verse , even though I often feel nothing but pain. Yet that is okay.
I also assumed you would like that “interesting quote” about us human beings who tend to make other human beings our gods, since we are idolaters by nature, until God eventually sets us free to really love HIM with all our heart , mind, soul, thoughts…..and everything. I remember that Bernard of Clairvaux also said that God takes us with our natural desire (eros) and draws us from the point where we are toward Himself and transforms all those “loves” you mentioned insofar as He simply changes the source where they sprang from. While our natural desires were fed by the flesh and what our eyes liked to see (carnal mind), our spiritual desires are fed by what the eyes of the hearts may behold (spiritual mind). And beholding Him who IS Beauty – GOD – makes us see all those who are in Him, too, as beautiful beings whom we love as much as we love Him. We cannot help but love those who have been born by the same Spirit. For it is written,
“Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome. For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.” (1 Jn 5:1-7 ESV)
Thank you for your very encouraging words and continued fellowship, my dear brother. You are a precious blessing to me! ❤
Susanne xx
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Dear Susanne,
You wowed me with your reply! It seems that you knew what I would answer back and intentionally made room for me to contribute to your article. Now THAT is truly laying down one’s life and giving honor to another in Christ’s body… Paul wrote,
“For by the grace given to me I bid every one among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith which God has assigned him. For as in one body we have many members, and all the members do not have the same function, so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.” (Romans 12:3-5 RSVA)
This is soooo important to see ourselves as members one of another! Each of us having a part as HE integrates us into the whole of Christ’s body as HE wills. And showing one another honor the way you just did here. Paul wrote about this principle that is severely lacking today in the churches…
“But now are they many members, yet but one body. And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of you: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary… but God has arranged the body together, having given more abundant honor to that part which lacked: That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.” (1 Corinthians 12:20-25 KJ2000)
Thank you for showing me so much care and honor today, Susanne. You truly are a blessing to the body of Christ! ❤
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WOWEE!! 🙂
Your comment above was truly mind-blowing for me, Michael! Actually, I would have never thought in terms of “honor” when I refrained from posting more Scriptures than I already did in my entry. I rather think it is normal what I did, don’t you think? But I am glad that you felt being cared for and honored by me, though, Michael, since I REALLY care. ❤
To be completely honest, my brother, currently I do not love writing that much (sickness, fatigue, heart pains) and I’d rather like to see more Spirit-led comments from others on here so that I have not so much to do. 🙂
Love you,
Susanne
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Dear Susanne,
No, I don’t think what you did as “normal” or status quo Christianity. For you wrote, “Indeed, I am glad I denied myself to quote more Scriptures in my article, quasi anticipating you would, perhaps, quote Psalm 23:4 and 2 Corinthians 4:10-12. And you did.” It was to this I was responding with astonishment.
My dear sister, you did what SHOULD be normal if we Christians truly preferred one another over ourselves as agape love would have us do, but all too many of us are still following the examples of our “church leaders” and trying to be a “one man band” as the “be all and end all” in every fellowship contact we have.
I remember about 35 years ago when I was first giving prophesies in church. One Sunday I was speaking out loud what I heard the Lord saying and I got half way through and He told me to stop and sit down. So I did. Then the brother behind me stood up and gave the second half of what I had heard! He was blessed and I was blessed to learn that God was not totally dependent on ME as “His Prophet” (gag!), to say what was on His mind. How much better it would be for we members of Christ’s body to think and act like we ARE a body of MANY members instead of only OUR part!
Again, dear Susanne, thank you for loving and honoring me as a fellow member where He has assembled us together as HE has by HIS will. You have made this passage take on scope for me…
“And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as you see the day approaching.”
(Hebrews 10:24-25 KJ2000)
Love you, too!
Michael
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Whoopee, your testimony is quasi a confirmation for what I did (or rather not did), a second witness, so to speak. 😉
Michael, that is interesting as well. I have been struggling with that part of Hebrews (Heb 10:25) for a long time since regarding church meeting it never made sense to me. But today I see how important it is to have such strong relationships/fellowships in the Spirit through which we can sustain one another when one of us is weak and the other is stronger – and vice versa, of course. Prayer moves mountains when we have God-given faith, doesn’t it?
I also think that preferring one another over ourselves has to do with the mystery of oneness. Being one with God and with one another, we behold Him and hear Him IN our brothers and sisters as well. We hear God speak through them, too, and since we love hearing God’s voice, we will love to listen to them and submit to Christ’s authority we perceive in what they share with us. It is a mystery, isn’t it…
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Susanne, Yes and Yes! You got it!!! Thanks for your part in this amazing picture the Spirit has painted on here of our Lord’s functioning body. A mystery coming to life and light!
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This was such lovely piece.
“But suddenly I saw Jesus as close as I have never seen Him..” Yes! I have done that a couple of times. That is just such a wonderful feeling, like going home, like finally finding what you’ve been looking for your whole life. It is indescribable, the most amazing feeling of love and joy, but exciting too, with no anxiety. There just aren’t words.
“I want to emphasize that it is indeed God who longs to be loved back by us.”
Amen! That is an incredible thing, God actually desires a relationship with us, He wants to feel our love, too. I have a hard time wrapping my brain around that truth, but it’s real, alright. God seeks us out, He comes looking for us. There is a surrender required, a letting go of pride and self, to allow Him in, but when we do, there He is.
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Thank you so much for your continued encouragement, dear Gabrielle. ❤
I was glad to hear that you had such wonderful experiences with God. Such experiences we cannot express in words, can we… 🙄
The surrender thing is anything but easy, indeed. Without His help it would even be impossible, for sure. But if we let go of all that hinders us to really love Him back, you’re right, “there He is!”
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Great analysis, Susanne. We are simply a conduit of God’s infinite love, expressed in our interpersonal relationships with others as humility, forgiveness, mercifulness, longsuffering, and a servant’s spirit. Sadly, the unrestricted flow of God’s love through our conduit selves is all too often restricted or blocked by the sinister and tenacious pride that seek to put us ahead of God.
Suffering is God’s character building tool that chisels away at our pride for a lifetime. What do you think?
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I think, Lloyd, you are absolutely right. 🙂 Very well said! Thanks for your wise input.
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Lloyd wrote, “Suffering is God’s character building tool that chisels away at our pride for a lifetime. What do you think?” I would like to field an answer to that… I wrote about this very process a few years back, God chiseling away every bit of stone off off of us that is not who we are IN His completed vision of us IN Christ. I wrote what He showed me here if you are interested..
“Michael’s David” http://www.awildernessvoice.com/David.html
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I like your analogy, Michael. Pride can indeed be as hard as stone.
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Yes, but God has a cure, Lloyd. “And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.” (Matthew 21:44 KJ2000)
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Yes Sue that text of gal2:20 is saying to the believers–I Paul am dead to trying to live for God…now Christ in me is living for his father and I get to participate–and when we modern day christians read that text we had better know that we are also dead to our own self effort…and I know I had to go through a lot of painful situations to learn that.
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So sorry to hear that you had to go through a lot of painful situations, dear Kenneth. It has been a painful learning process, hasn’t it? And sooo looong… 😛
Thanks so much for your confirming words, my brother!
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thanks Sue–but to be honest with you I am glad I went through them–I have been challenged by many legalists who will say to me–why can you not imitate Christ and live an obedient life and my answer is I have not come from the heavenly realm but Christ did and so I have learned that His obedience is on the mark and I am happy to trust Him to do it using me as the instrument–but most of the time He needs to force me to realize that and thus that’s the training–as T Austin Sparks calls it–THE SCHOOL OF CHRIST.
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Sometimes I am inclined to think that legalism seems to be prevalent in American churches, Kenneth, but I am not sure. I was relieved to hear that you could even gladly accept what you had to go through in your life.
As for THE SCHOOL OF CHRIST, well, I know that too. If I am unwilling to hear what God whispers into my ears, I often need an increasing pressure through circumstances until I really open my eyes and follow Him – back into His rest and peace. It’s not an easy way He chose for us, my brother, but it’s all worth it.
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C. S, Lewis wrote, “We can ignore even pleasure. But pain insists upon being attended to. God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pains: it is his megaphone to rouse a deaf world.”
God knows how to get through to us and I have grown to believe that ALL thing work together for the GOOD of those who love God and are called according to HIS purpose.
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Amen, Michael. Very well said! 🙂
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Love Divine, all love excelling, Joy of heaven on earth come down.Fix in us Thy humble dwelling. All Thy faithful mercies crown. Jesus, Thou art all compassion, pure un-bounded love Thou art! Visit us with Thy salvation Enter every trembling heart
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Of the themes that men have known, One supremely stands alone. Thru the ages it has shown. Tis His wonderful, wonderful love. Love is the theme.Love is supreme.
Sweeter it grows, glory bestows bright is the sun- ever it glows. Love is the theme, eternal theme.
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All my heart to Him I give, ever to Him I’ll cling.. In His blessed presence live, ever His praises ring. Love, so mighty,and so true merits my soul’s best songs. Faithful,
loving service, too, , To Him belong. love lifted me! Love lifted me. When nothing else could help, love lifted me1
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Jesus, lover of my soul,: Hide me, O my Savior hide, tip the trouble of my life has
passed. Safe into the haven guide, O receive my soul at last.
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Thank you for sharing all you wrote in these four comments above, Bernie.
Indeed, Jesus is the lover of our souls and He is the only way to God, our loving Father, whose Spirit fills the void in our hearts and satisfies every desire we might have as no other human being ever could.
Be blessed, my brother!
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Love sent my Savior to die in my place! Why should He love me so? Meekly, to calvary’s cross He was led! WHY SHOULD HE LOVE ME SO?
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Good question, Bernie…why does He love us so? I don’t know it, either, but I know He does. AND HOW MUCH HE DOES!!! 🙂
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The question of innocent suffering has been central in my life. It may have originated with abuse, but I have for many years pondered it in the context of poverty, starvation, and disease. Christ is the only satisfactory answer. He comforts us, even when He does not relieve our pain. He uses the pain to transform us here, and will reward us in the next world for bearing it. This is not masochism. The pain is not allowed by God because we are worthless and deserve nothing else. It is a reflection of the pain He took upon Himself for our sakes. We come to see beyond it, see its purpose. Or, if not that, to trust Him despite the pain this life inflicts.
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Yes, Anna! We are being formed into the image of Christ in the crucible of affliction by the hands of our Father. It is so wonderful to be there together with you and the rest of His precious ones like Susanne and many who write on our blogs.
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A very insightful comment, as always, dear Anna. 🙂
And you are so right, “Christ is the only satisfactory answer” since we have, if we are no honest, no answers when we ponder on innocent suffering.
As for me, I always need His help to make me trust Him in adverse situations. Although I do not understand WHY He lets us suffer, I see it really changes me from the inside. It softens my heart, so to speak.
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We are more than CONQUERORS AND WHO can separate US FROM THE LOVE.LOVE, LOVE OF GOD! For He has promised to fulfill His will in us.He said that
HE WOULD GUIDE US WITH HIS EYE! FOR HE HAS BLESSED WITH ALL
GIFTS IN CHRIST ALL GIFTS IN CHRIST! & WE ARE HIS DELIGHT, WE ARE HIS DELIGHT.
HE’S WITH IN TO FINISH WHAT’S BEGUN IN ME, ME, ME! HE OPENS DOORS
NO ONE CAN DENY, NO ONE CAN DENY, NO ONE CAN DENY! HE MAKES A WAY WHERE THERE IS NO WAY. AND WE ARE HIS DELIGHT, DELIGHT, DELIGHT!
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Wayne Jacobson wrote in his book titled “He Loves Me”, that “Love lies at the very core of God’s nature. In fact, when John sums up the substance of God he does so in a very simple statement: ‘God is love’. We may not be able to explain in concrete terms all that God is and how Father, Son and Spirit relate together in such unity, but we do know that they exist in a perfect state of love”. He went further to state that, “When that love touches you, you will discover there is nothing more powerful in the entire universe. It is more powerful than your failures, your sins, your disappointments, your dreams and even your fears. God knows that when you tap the depths of His love, your life will for ever be changed. Nothing can prevail over it”. Sussane your article reminds me of what God told me some years ago, that I should learn to find my security in the love of God. He went further to say that Jesus succeeded in his earthly assignment because he was secured in the Father’s love for him and nothing else. We are living in a world full of identity crisis, people are trying to define their lives and find their security around so many things like money, popularity, religious piety, ministry, church, a particular man of God, etc. But all those grounds are sand, its like building our house on sand. The only Rock to built our house is the Rock of His Love, because without this foundation, we will see no reason to love Him back, each and every one of us must come to place of defining our lives, motives and actions on the Love of God. “For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing” (John 5:20a). Thank you Sussane for such an insightful article…agape (Hosea, Jos-Nigeria).
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Great quotes, Hosea! I particularly love this one,
“When that love touches you, you will discover there is nothing more powerful in the entire universe.”
Yes and amen to that!! His love makes us forget that we ever sinned, casts out all fear, and disappointments are no longer important, since rejoicing in the loving presence of the Eternal God is the best thing that ever happened to me. Really!!! 🙂
You are so right, my brother, building on anything this world can offer is only “like building our house on sand.”
By the way, I was very glad to see that you launched your own blog recently and I am looking forward to reading your insights, which I believe are both spiritual and thoroughly thought through.
Love,
Susanne
PS
Which blog is the right one, Hosea?
(1) https://fwangmunhosea.wordpress.com/
(2) https://insightsfromabove247.wordpress.com/
I am following both of them…or do you have two blogs? 🙄
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I will never cease to thank you Sussane for your encouragement. Yes, I actually launched a blog and I am trusting God for utterance and grace to speak His word with boldness. I don’t want to come from the knowledge point of view, because knowledge puffs up but love edifie. Rather, I desire to speak from life, hearing what the Father is saying and shouting it on the rooftop…agape sister. Hosea.
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Oh my, what has happened? I just wanted to empty my spam folder as I saw that comment from you in it, dear Hosea! I have no idea how that could happen. All of your other comments were approved by Akismet (WP’s spam filtering service) without problems. Thank God I didn’t simply delete all “spams” as usual. Instead, God made me aware of a “non-spam” which is such a precious response from you. 🙂 Thanks a bunch for your kind words, dear brother.
In His agape love,
Susanne
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Hosea, you wrote, “I don’t want to come from the knowledge point of view, because knowledge puffs up but love edifies. Rather, I desire to speak from life, hearing what the Father is saying.”
I will be looking forward to reading your blog, dear brother. There is way too much writing that is spawned in the intellects of men and women on Christian blog sites. I really enjoy how Susanne writes from her experiences that come from her relationship with Jesus and the Father, don’t you?
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